Episode 314 / Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu / ClassPass / Acquisition Marketing Manager

The current plethora of choices and obsession with always seeing what everyone else is up to has created an atmosphere of continuous FOMO, says Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu, Acquisition Marketing Manager at ClassPass. Instead, marketers need to find balance and authenticity within themselves to succeed in the era of AI.

Beril believes that "the idea of being magnificent in every aspect of your life or in your work is more of an anxious concept than a happy concept." It's more useful to step back a little, finding the best methods to sustain a balance, rather than constantly going after everything all at once. It's not only the key to better mental health, but to longevity in your career, too.

The one great thing about staying balanced and authentic in the world of AI is that you're able to connect the "human dots" across disciplines, something AI agents are unable to spot. She quotes the painter Bob Ross saying "there are no mistakes, just happy accidents." These happy accidents can open unexplored pathways and create ideas in your brain in a way that a GPT can never do.

Beril also gave us her top data driven marketing tips:

• Stay curious: ask what's behind the numbers and the bigger story
• Don't look at data in isolation - connect the dots
• Keep a strong testing mindset

In testing, Beril employs a method she calls The Good, the Bad and the Crazy. Tune in to the full podcast to find out more about it.

The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 0:00
For me, being data driven is not just about looking at numbers and knowing how to pull data the best, like knowing all the different tools that we have in the world right now. It's more about turning data into meaningful and actionable insights.

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Tom Ollerton 0:51
Hello and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of the creative effectiveness ad tech platform automated creative. And this is a podcast about the future of data driven marketing. Every week or so I have the pleasure and the privilege of interviewing one of our industry's leaders, and this week's no different. I'm here with Beril Aydingor, who is Acquisition Marketing Manager at ClassPass. And thank you for inviting me to your office in Bora. It's always much more fun in person, so I really appreciate that. So Beril, for anyone who doesn't know who you are and what you do, could you give them a little bit of background?

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 1:25
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Tom, first of all, the pleasure is mine, so thank you for having me as well. So this is Beril Aydingor, I'm the Acquisition Marketing Manager at ClassPass, responsible for our global acquisition for the partner side, probably the venues that you're seeing in ClassPass. So little bit of a background that what I did, and, like, what I'm doing now, is I worked in, I would say, big corporates like British American Tobacco and Vodafone. After that, I worked in a startup, which was, like, I was the only growth hire, so it was more of a one woman show. And after that, now, I would say ClassPass is a scale up. So I'm working in a scale up where you have any balance of, like, creative space of your own, but you also have the assets that you can take the benefit of. So yeah, that's that's me.

Tom Ollerton 1:26
What's your weirdest class you've done at ClassPass, yeah, what's the weirdest one you've done?

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 1:48
You're asking for the class that I've been to. So we had this campaign called sweat your heart out for the Valentine's Day. I think it was an amazing one. So basically, it was a class, but it was for the singles. I didn't attend as a single, but, like, I was there for the organisation. So it was, it was amazing.

Tom Ollerton 2:39
Yeah, I was probably ClassPass's, like second customer when it launched in London...

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 2:44
Yeah, you told me.

Tom Ollerton 2:45
Yeah, I've done colour yoga, aerial yoga, and all that on ClassPass. So it was really brilliant for me to unlock lots of different, well, yoga stuff, really.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 2:55
That's great, especially if you love variety. I think that's a great place.

Tom Ollerton 2:58
Yeah, I can't stand doing the same thing over and over again. That drives you mad. So, so in your career, it's so interesting. You've been the one woman show, and you've worked at the big corporates. Now you're at a scale up, so you've seen it like some free from... growth, three different angles, which is fascinating. So in that career, what new belief or behaviour has had the best impacts on your work life since you started using it.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 3:20
Yeah, got it. I can say that it's showing up. It's something that I think, as an introverted extrovert, something that I've been working on, even if you don't feel like it, or you're like, over procrastinating until you reach to a point like, which you can actually almost say, Oh, this would actually not be as useful as described. So, like, let's skip it for this time. Most of the times that I was too lazy to go to an event, but decided attending turned out to be the best types of events versus, like, the overly organised stuff. I don't know if you had that too, but like, the events you nearly skipped ends up being the showstopper. I don't know if you have that, but I think, to my experience, if you just keep showing up, it gets better off like having this continuity. And I think another thing that I can mention is increasing your signal to noise ratio. It's a concept that Steve Jobs used quite often so did Elon Musk. So let's say that you have 10 tasks for today, but it might be too hard to juggle with all of them, just like pick the top two or three, for starters, which are the most important to get done, which are, like, almost non negotiable for you, and leave the other like, Mumbo Jumbos or noises in this metaphor. Less prioritise also, just like, don't put the weight of the rest on your shoulders if you can't, just like, get them done. The more you increase your signal, you'll see that you'll get better at delivering things. It might come funny to you to hear this from someone between Gen Y and Gen Z, but like keeping an agenda or diary, like in handwriting, it's actually helping me a lot. Writing by hand actually, like, stimulates the brain and boosts the connectivity patterns that promote learning. So it's not only old school, but. Actually it's really helpful to get things done.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 4:53
And do you mean a diary for, like, what you're going to do, or for what you've done?

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 5:07
It's actually both of them. Sometimes I'm just like, definitely keep the diary for what you're going to do, because it's almost like getting things done 50% but also the learnings that you got from that day, or, like, if you think that you heard a concept. It can be a quote from someone, it can be a funny joke from a friend. These connections are helping me a lot in the wrong one.

Tom Ollerton 5:28
And you write this down, it's like pen and paper. That's what does it for you?

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 5:31
Yeah, exactly. Writing them down, it's just like boosting that brain, like learning activity.

Tom Ollerton 5:37
Well, maybe that's what I'm doing wrong. Because, I mean, I've been, I've been working for, like, in this industry for like, 17-18, years, and I, like, I say yes to everything, right? So I'm a "brilliant, let's do that with a capital letters Yes." And then at the start of the day, I'm like, Well, I can't, like how and even, like picking the top two means I'm going to annoy myself or someone else the next day, because I haven't done that thing, and I really struggle with that. So I wonder if tomorrow, what I do, I'll just sit down, just write it down.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 6:08
Yeah, it can be something different for you as well. It might not be only there, like writing it. It can be only, like, five minute reminders for before your meetings, or just like the funny ideas that can keep you stimulated before doing something. I think that helps a lot. And only, like, also, I was thinking about, if you are really having hard times that, like, finding those three top important things out of those 10, think of like, what's non negotiable for you, maybe for you, for the business, and like, what will be the high, highest impact or effort, I think the ones with the higher impact or effort rate would show you the way. In general, this is, like how we are planning the roadmaps quarterly in ClassPass, or, like how I'm planning my daily life as well. If you are chasing something which has a higher impact and low effort, that's something that you can prioritise, definitely. And the next thing that I can say to keep this like signal to noise ratio high, and keeping your showing up momentum, having this mindset of every day is a new day. So Warren Buffett has a quote that says a stock doesn't know you own it. I know like it's actually from financial world, obviously, but it tells you a story about the changes happening in your life. The things that you're noticing about your life is not being perceived by everyone around you, or not everything in your life is being affected by it. I think it's almost like a spotlight syndrome. So we have this tendency to overestimate how much others are noticing our actions or mistakes that then that we are actually stopped acting to not make any mistakes at all, so, but sometimes that's just your brain messing with you. So like, keep showing up, accept every day as a new day, and keep your signal to noise ratio high. These will be the beliefs and behaviours that's improved my quality of life and work life as well.

Tom Ollerton 7:57
I think I feel I've got, like, a kind of self help book's worth of content already in the first section. That's amazing spotlight syndrome. That's such an articulate way of putting it.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 8:05
Yeah, I'm a psychologist as well. So yeah, I studied Business Administration and psychology, so a half psychologist, I'd say

Tom Ollerton 8:13
Maybe that's the hidden skill set needed for my career. Thank you.

Tom Ollerton 8:19
So you've already given me lots of tips, but I'm gonna have to ask you, because I ask everyone, is there a specific tip that you find yourself sharing most often to help data driven marketers become better at their jobs outside of these brilliant things you've already shared?

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 8:38
Yeah, sure. So like, first of all, for me, being data driven is not just about looking at numbers and knowing how to pull data the best, like knowing all the different tools that we have in the world right now. It's more about turning data into meaningful and actionable insights. So first, is it simplified enough to be comprehended by everyone? It should be simplified, like whether you're talking to a salesperson or if you're talking to an engineer who's super technical or creative. It should be complex, and it like within itself, but you should put it as simple as possible, so everyone can comprehend it. And second, it should open a way to act on it. So it should be measurable, so that you can you can understand, Okay, what's the next action out of this data? So to get better at this, my advices will be, first, always stay curious. Ask what's behind the numbers, like, what's the story they have before deep diving into it? I think it's like getting to know someone, because first you have the first impression, but their story can alter your view after knowing them better, so always stay curious, is the first advice, and the second, don't look at the data in isolation, just like connect the dots around it. There are probably lots of stakeholders for your customer journey, so as your data. So have this like almost an eagle's eye perspective for the data. For instance, my mind loves connecting the dots. Thoughts, I can, just like, find a music familiar with the geometrical shape, or I can find a friend familiar with an abstract painting. And this, I believe these so called strange connections can help you a lot with the data. I know it sounds a bit weird, but like, do you also make these strange connections when working with data? Do you have that thing or maybe in your daily life?

Tom Ollerton 9:27
Yes, so in our business, so we we're always looking for the for the combination of creative factors that drives the outcomes that the brand wants. And so in order to do that, you have to test lots of different variables, so whether that's visual or written, but you have to start with the weird connections to begin with. So there was a, there was a, again, how much I could share here. There's, there was an infant formula brand that we work with and and and the best practice would said, you should always have the the mother and the baby. Okay? Kind of makes sense, right? You know, all the best performing infant formula ads have that, whereas what we did was, think, make weird connections. Go Well, what else is in the life of a ever baby? You know, there's Dad, there's pets, there's other kids, there's grandpa.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 11:18
Things that you actually notice in your daily life, but you're not putting in your work life.

Tom Ollerton 11:21
So the data would say, use mom and baby. But, and I think in seven we'd rolled this on seven markets, on three platforms, and uniformly, what drove performance was Mother, sorry, the baby and the dad. So if you wanted to get a conversion out of a mum via Meta, put a dad in it, and everyone's like, No, never, but best practice, when you only look at the data, right? Definitely is a mom. But if you say, if you look, step outside of it and find, I mean, that's not a particularly weird angle, but it's different to what is expected. So yes, I totally agree with you. Yeah, strange, strange connections we find is, is the thing that usually performs best in digital ads.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 12:01
That's great. I think I was also thinking about that when you are talking and it lends to my last point of like, we talked about always staying curious. We talked about, like, Don't looking data in isolation. And lastly, combine that data with a strong testing mindset. As you said, like you test it first. I think you should get your hypothesis ready, and you should have a few of them, not only one hypothesis, and be your own devil's advocate for, say, like, when necessary. Don't leave it for anyone else at first. So you should be your own devil's advocate when it's, like, necessary. And then you can just, like, ask the other ones. So I sometimes have this different alternatives for one test. It's like an Imani song. I don't know if you know this song, but I'd highly recommend everyone to listen. It's from Imani. The song's name is The Good, the Bad and the crazy. So I generally have this good, solid idea, which is mostly like the case, then a bad idea, which I know is kind of shitty, but like, I'm secretly wishing for it, because it would make my world way easier. And lastly, I have this crazy one. It's like the next big thing, and it can open another path which is unexplored but less likely than a solid, solid one. But I know it can be more likely than a bad one as well. So like to constantly build them, run experiments around them and analysis around them, and use what you learn out of them to drive growth. So like to sum up my long layered advice, and always be curious, and be the two year old toddler in the room who just like keeps asking, Why? Why? Why like? Why is that? Why is this and like? From, from my perspective, for instance, instead of just looking at click through rates, the changes in click through rate, I ask why people might have clicked in the first place and why they have dropped off afterwards. So those extra Whys often uncover hidden opportunities for you.

Tom Ollerton 13:50
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Tom Ollerton 14:26
So I've just published a book called using data and creativity in marketing, and there was a really interesting interview with a lady who was like a performance specialist. And you have to read the book to read the whole story, but basically, what it was saying was that she was working on a dating app, like a women dating other women dating app, and their customer acquisition was starting to slide.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 14:54
London needs them very much.

Tom Ollerton 14:57
And and so what she did was. Was having interviews with the people using the app now, bearing in mind, this was like 10 years ago or something. And she said, you know, why you Why are you using this app? So? And they said, Oh, to make friends. She's like, she was last but in her head, she was like, That's a bit weird. So then she said, Well, okay, so how do you choose friends? And the respondent said, Oh, by the way that they look and see, she's like, Oh, right. They don't want to admit they're on a dating app, because dating apps were as prevalent. And so what they did is changed all of their advertising to be like, make friends on dot, dot, dot, and then all and then they had like, sections on the app and on the website or a community and like, they did get that stuff, but it that became the justification for them to get into the app. Whereas if you only looked at the data, you just got, okay, that's the best performer from last month. Let's put more money on it. And the CPA goes up and up and up and up, right? Whereas what she's done is what you're saying.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 15:56
Exactly, if you don't know the story, data cannot tell you everything, because I think it's, as you said, reverse psychology really helps a lot, especially with UX. For instance, the things that we are doing, if we are doing a user research, we are literally asking, like, what made you quit using this app, or, like, what would make you never use this app again? So you're understanding the negative behaviours that can rise out of it, and trying to, like, avoid them or use them and justify the things that you have as a benefit so that you can provide to your customers. And that's a great way as well.

Tom Ollerton 16:29
And I have to apologise, Barbara, I forgot your name there for a minute. It's been a long day, but Barbara Galiza is a performance marketing expert. She's absolutely brilliant. She's a brilliant newsletter. So that's Barbara. I'm happy to make the introduction. So we're going to do your shiny new object now, which is mindset? So what do you mean? And why is that your shiny new object?

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 16:53
Yeah, yeah, sure. So, like, what I was thinking about, like talking about the mindset is it's about the importance of balance and authenticity. So like especially in today's ecosystem, we are all fueled by FOMO to some extent, which is fear of missing out. So our parents had fewer choices, so probably they had less FOMO than we have, but we have endless choices. But that abundance can actually feel like scarcity at some extent of time of focus and energy. So me being between Gen Y and Gen Z and with now AI introduced our world more than ever. We have countless opportunities surrounding us, and when you scroll in social media, it even gets worse. Like think of LinkedIn. Everyone is a guru on LinkedIn, super happy on Instagram and like it sometimes make you feel like you are the only one who is not on holiday 24/7, right? Like everyone is holiday happy, all of the people are gurus, but like you need to know you cannot excel at everything. The idea of being magnificent in every aspect in your life or in your work is just more of an anxious concept than an happy concept, as it should be. So I believe us marketeers usually have this dilemma of being a generalist versus being a specialist. And I'm more of a generalist side. But I always have wondered how it would look like for me if I would have been a specialist. Also, I think today's world is giving you rather hard times to peacefully specialise in one thing, there are just a lot of distractions for you. So finding your own balance within you, and stepping back a little bit when it's needed, and finding the best methods to sustain that balance, I think this is the key to continuity of success in the long run. And I believe those moments of like, I know a lot of things, maybe 7% of 10 different subjects, and not 100% in one thing, that's actually okay. So it's sometimes even better, as it gives you this complete authenticity. You are like an onion in a good way, I'd say. So. I also want to say that in a world where AI connects data points, that the data points that we talked about, AI can help you to connect them. Generalists are great at connecting human dots across disciplines, not only data points, but the human dots that AI can miss, so that's harder to replace. I know there's an ongoing discussion whether AI will replace our jobs, or we are hearing which proficiencies are like found to be easier to replace. And I actually find us like data driven marketers, lucky for that, because, as most of the time, our job is to put a meaning to data or inputs. So there is this one specific thing that you can actually be different than everyone, and that cannot be replaced as easy it is your experience and your personality, which I call as authenticity. So it can be sometimes, as a song, you listen a pattern or even a happy accident. This is the way I call them by the way. It comes from the famous, famous painter, Bob Ross. I don't know if Bob. Do you know Bob Ross? Uncle Ross? Yeah, yeah. He says, we don't have mistakes, we have happy accidents. So I call them as happy accidents. And these happy accidents can create an idea in you, which a GPT probably is not wide enough to give you that.

Tom Ollerton 20:05
It's interesting you say that. I heard an interview with a head of AI at Microsoft. He used, he founded deep mind. You know, I was honestly, it was a bit of a sales pitch, but fair enough. And he said that, actually, I don't agree with this, but it's stuck in my head. He said the big problem with AIs is hallucinations. But actually you kind of want hallucinations, because you need the oddness. You need the mistakes, not not if you're exactly fly a plane or something you know that you don't have any for certain jobs. Actually, the weirdness, the happy accidents, might be something that we look for in an AI.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 20:56
Exactly. And you also need the creativity, right? The more that you're just like getting used to using AI for everything you're just like, using, like, losing the creativity expecting you obviously, like, we are benefiting from Ai heavily, like, massively in our job as well. But like, taking a benefit from it and finding your balance so when it's like, your view is needed, and when AI can actually boost it with the automations with the, I would say, bulk amount of data, maybe that can lose your time, that time that you can actually build strategies. So that's the way you should balance AI with your work.

Tom Ollerton 21:31
Yeah, I'm really, I'm really conflicted about, I mean, you know, automated creative have worked with AI for basically the last 10 years, and how it works in an advertising context. We saw this day coming, like 10 years ago, hence why we set up the business. But there's a few things that happened recently that have stuck in my head. So this we do another show called Advertisers Watching Ads, which is like a panel show that's on LinkedIn, YouTube and stuff. And I have a group of all the people who used to be on the show just carrying on chatting about ads. And this guy shared this post, and he said, Look, I wrote this post on LinkedIn about something. I didn't use any AI. So he was pointing to the quality of the piece by saying there was no AI in it. And I thought, wow, that is so interesting, isn't it? Right? Exactly. It's almost like a battle of I said, Oh, could you ping me some ideas for a whatever. And if you come back to me quickly, I'm gonna be I don't want this. I know you didn't think about this, but as you said that, what's that lovely phrase, experience and personnel equals authenticity, right? So if you AI it, you're ignored. You can't possibly be authentic. That actually says it on the tin, artificial, exactly.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 22:38
And I think you can. You can, just like, multiply the work that the quality or you have with AI by, like, 100 times quicker, but you can just multiply the quality that you are building from scratch, from you. So first, do your own work, like, definitely get help from AI, whether it's research, it's data analysis, but put your own perspective as well. This is like, how I think it will help incorporating AI in your job as well. So I think valuing your authenticity and finding your balance in between lots of distractions are the key concepts in the AI world that can carry you one step ahead.

Tom Ollerton 23:13
Yeah, so it's been a brilliant interview, like between literally so much stuff, and you articulate it all really well. So I guess the the final question for me, and unfortunately, we're at time now, if someone wants to get in touch with you, where's the best place, and what makes a message that you will actually reply to?

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 23:33
I think I love funny messages that's coming from email sometimes, but like they can, they can reach me out by LinkedIn DMS as well. The thing that I really don't like is cold calls, because you don't know how busy that person is throughout the day or how the mood of that person so LinkedIn, DM funny emails or funny messages, they can reach me out through my business phone number as well. I prefer WhatsApp. So these, these are the like methods I like to be reached.

Tom Ollerton 24:02
Brilliant. thank you so much for your time.

Beril Aydingor Yunusoglu 24:04
Yeah, thank you Tom.

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