Episode 265 / Philipp Schuster / Bayer / Agency & Marketing Partnerships Director, Global Strategic Marketing, Consumer Health
Elevating Partnerships for New Types of Strategic Marketing Collaborations
At Bayer, Philipp Schuster brings with him a rich experience of working in agencies and procurement, to now focus on driving marketing efforts in an innovative way.
Philipp’s role focuses on cultivating partnerships and putting together creative incubators that stimulate agencies into developing new and exciting creative for Bayer. On the podcast, he tells us why these strategic partnerships are his Shiny New Object.
We also learn about his data driven marketing approach, which relates back to before data was predominant in how we evaluate success in the industry. For Philipp, it’s crucial to have balanced conversations with a diverse network. This allows him to get out of his comfort zone, hear new points of view, and truly expand his understanding of marketing.
Find out more by tuning into the full podcast.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Philipp Schuster 0:00
We cannot be afraid of asking questions. We cannot be afraid of constantly educating ourselves and challenging ourselves and putting ourselves in uncomfortable positions.
Tom Ollerton 0:08
Hello and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative. And this is a regular podcast about the future of data driven marketing, and every week or so I have the privilege of speaking to one of our leaders about their vision for this industry. And this week is no different. I'm on a call with Philipp Schuster, who is agency management and marketing partnerships director Global Strategic Marketing, consumer health at Bayer. So Philip, for anyone who doesn't know who you are and what you do, could you give us a better background?
Philipp Schuster 0:48
Hi Tom, and thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be with you today. Yeah. So my background is quite diverse. I started in retail, retail marketing, then I went, you know, agency side, spent a couple of years there. I then pivoted to marketing procurement, which at the time, didn't even know what it was, but it sounded like something I could do because of my agency background. And I did that, then Adidas started basically the marketing procurement discipline in Adidas 13 years ago, and then eight years ago, I did a similar role at Bayer, which was across the entire Bayer portfolio of divisions. And over the last four and a half years, I've joined the global marketing team in the consumer division, which is the OTC web space for for Bayer and I basically was joining to elevate our fairly tactical, uh relationships to real strategic partnerships. And that's what I've been doing for the last four, four and a half years, and that's been really quite an incredible journey.
Tom Ollerton 1:58
So in the last five years, which new belief or behavior has made your work life better?
Philipp Schuster 2:04
Yeah, I think what really has come to the forefront for me in my organization, but I honestly, I feel it's also something which I've seen across the industry, is really that focus on impact, and of course, impact is is quite broad, but I think for me, what I've seen is I, I have a much better work life, and I can show also much better the impact, you know, the impact of the road or the Yeah, what I can the value I can deliver to to not only you know, the role in my, my my Direct environment, but also the wider organization. So what I've tried to do in, especially in my last role, because, you know, I had to do it from scratch. There was no, there was not a role like this before. It was a, you know, a blank piece of paper. I really had to prove to the organization that what I do has impact. So everything I do, I try to showcase the impact of the role and, and really the impact for the organization and, and, of course, you have to come up with certain, you know, tangible measurements, certain KPIs, but I think it goes, it goes beyond that, right? It's, you know, especially in the role I do. It's a people's business, right? You know people. You know people want to work with, with great people. And if there are good relationships, and if you can showcase that, you know, these relationships, you know, have have an influence in the work. Make the work better. Make the creative better, make you know the output better. I think then you are in a good place. And I think just now, you know, we're going through a massive reorganization where, you know, we have assumed, you know, we streamline, we streamline our organization even further. But the role, what I do was really considered, is really considered highly valuable, so I can continue and even expand the role. And that, for me, is proof that the approach and how we have been working over the last four, four and a half years, was the right one.
Tom Ollerton 4:05
So we'll come back to strategic partnerships in a minute. But I'd love to know across your journey, like, what specific advice do you have for data driven marketers to do a better job and become better in their roles?
Philipp Schuster 4:19
Yeah, it's, it's a good question. Because for me, I have, I, you know, I started my career in the year Facebook was founded, right? So, and I'm not saying there was no data at all available prior social media and prior Facebook, but it was a different world back then, right? So for me, data driven marketing is only something which only existed, you know, a few years into my into my career, and therefore, I think for me, it's all about not being afraid asking questions and learning and being open minded. And so, for example, in my my for me and in my environment, I mean, I come more from a creative agency background. I. And I only you know, recently started to work with the likes of Google and our media agencies and our content partners, where we know which, which, of course, those areas are very data driven. So I didn't know, you know this discipline before. So when I came in, I just had to be, had to be open and say, you know, guys, can you explain to me how this works, right? And, and I think, because it's so dynamic, this, this doesn't change, right, like And now, of course, with Gen AI, in the most recent developments, we, we all have to be just very, you know, very eager to learn, right? We haven't. We cannot be afraid of, of asking questions we cannot be afraid of, of of constantly educating ourselves and challenging ourselves and putting ourselves in in uncomfortable, uncomfortable positions. To a certain extent, my ex CMO, where I work for, said, You know, I I try to put myself every day in an uncomfortable position because it makes me a better a better lead, a better marketer. And I think if we, if we do that, and maybe doesn't have to be every day, but if we do that on an ongoing basis, I think will become better at our in our work, better in, you know, in the, let's say, in the current era of marketing, which is, of course, much more data driven than than it was in the past.
Tom Ollerton 6:22
So just to dig a bit deeper on that, so I don't think anyone's going to argue with you about the idea of being eager to learn and curious is a word that comes up a lot on this podcast. But how would you know what to learn? Right? Because everyone's got an agenda, right? So in full transparency, automated creative, we do thought leadership, the agenda is that your eyes come to us, and we would interest a brand to possibly work with us, right? It's our agenda. The game we're playing in the same way every other supplier is playing is to, is to, is to tap attention and focus away from the other choices, right? That's what, that's what we do. Same with Matt, same with Google, same with everyone. And then you've got academic institutions that you know, they have a financial target to hit as well. So yes, you can stay curious, but you could spend all afternoon reading something that wasn't the right thing to learn. So how do you make sure that when you are eager to learn, that you're learning the right things?
Philipp Schuster 7:25
Yeah, it's a good question. And trust me, I mean, I get approached by a lot of people, and everybody, of course, as you said, like everybody has an agenda, everybody's biased. Everybody wants to showcase themselves in the light, in the best light, most cases, in my world, of course, wants to sell something. I think it's all about having a balanced selection of conversations, in a way, right? So, because if I only speak to a certain type of people, or certain, you know, type of partners, or possible partners, I'll hear the same kind of story. But if I speak to different players in in the game, let's say, in our environment, I think you know, you can, you will, you will pick up a fairly, you know, or more objectively, right? So you speak to, you speak to a media agency, you speak to Google, you speak to, for example, I work closely with wsa, right, which is the World Federation of Advertisers. I think also, I think they are partners. Tom, right, so you know. And of course, these, these are peers, right? So I can then speak to people who, do you know, a similar job in in other client organizations, in other industries. And I think the more conversations I have with that, with the more diverse set of people you know, the more objective your picture becomes. And then you can almost, really put this picture together, put this mosaic together. Then you realize, okay, you know, this is maybe the, this is maybe, you know, closer to the truth, to the truth I need to find, right? And I think, you know, that's why it's for me, it's important have a really, a good network, a vast network, but also a diverse network, a network with, you know, different voices, and not basically just the same in a different in a different package, right? So I think for me, that has worked really well. And you know, as I speak to a lot of people from from different backgrounds, I think I could have, I really can put the picture together.
Tom Ollerton 9:26
This episode of the shiny new object podcast is brought to you in partnership with madfest. Whether it's live in London or streamed online to the global marketing community, you can always expect a distinctive and daring blend of fast paced content, startup innovation pitches and unconventional entertainment from madfest events, you'll find me causing trouble on stage, recording live versions of this podcast and sharing a beer with the nicest and most influential people in marketing. Check it out at www.madfestlondon.com,
So we're now going to move on to your shining new object, which you sort of started talking about, which is strategic partnerships. So in doing over 250 episodes of this podcast, I've never even come across anyone, let alone a business that does what you do. So I'm really keen to know, like, why that job came about. What do you what's it meant to achieve, and how do you do it?
Philipp Schuster 10:27
Yeah, as I alluded to briefly, I was actually approached by our now ex cmo for the consumer division about five years ago when she joined. And you know, she has the FMCG background, worked at Unilever before, and Heineken, came to us try to understand the environment, and, of course, also the, let's say, the agency ecosystem. And I was in procurement at the time, and she, at some point, told me, I I want, I want, I want you to work for me, not for procurement, because I want this to be closer to me and closer to my remit, because I feel that we need to elevate our game when it comes to our partners and and of course, for me, that was a tempting, offer, because there is only, I mean, in procurement, there's only so much you can do, and you are always measured by, or mostly measured by financials, by, you know, contractual objectives. But this role was really, or this role is really focused on, on the relationship piece. And I think it's really underrated how much it can do. And I think over the last, you know, as I said, four- four and a half years, I think we really were able to elevate our our game, elevate the way how we work with our partners, and really become a client and a partner of choice. I want to be one of the top clients with my agencies and my partners, because only if I am I get the talent and access to the innovation I need to, you know, to really make a difference, right? And I think clients underestimate that, and partners and agencies really appreciate that, right? So if you do a few things, you know differently and better than then, then, then agencies, you know they recognize that. And just a couple examples we did, for example, creative incubator, where basically we gave our agencies the opportunity to be as creative as they want on our brands, right? They can. They could come to end with any idea to us. And we put pick those ideas which really were important draw and which they didn't dare to show us in the past because they thought, you know, they will be rejected. And we basically pulled these ideas out, looked at them, you know, awarded the Best of them and and executed them, right? And I think we had, and that is that inspired, not only, you know, not only us, but also the agencies, right? You know, we you need to be an exciting, you know, clients and brand for agencies to work on, and for the best talent agencies to work on so, so that's, that's kind of what we we do. We have also elevated our senior leadership exchanges, you know, we we have now so called top to tops with the holding companies. We have elevated the relationship from agency level to holding company level. And once a year, our our CEO meets the CEO or the leadership of the holding company. Therefore, you can have conversations which go beyond the usual, you know, scope discussions, right? And you can really identify ways how to leverage each other better. That's that goes both ways, right and and then over the last few years, we also have worked differently when it comes to scoping. So what we have done, especially now with our, you know, with our media search partners and Google, with essence Mediacom, we actually created a so called, an integrated joint business plan, right, where we really develop, you know, a common, a common, you know, common plan which aims to hit objectives for both of both sides, and in that case, it's actually across multiple partners. So that's quite unique, where we have one plan, covering media, covering search, covering content, covering measurement, and all our partners are in the same room, working on this together, right? And we meet one supporter, we go through it and and I think these things make a true difference. And what I'm, what I'm getting back from, from from our partners, is, you know, this is, this is just not. This is something we would have not even dreamed of a few years ago. And it makes, it makes the work. It makes the work better, right? And it truly maximize the impact. Me back to my first the impact of of the partnership and and I think that resonates for for for everyone who's involved in the process.
Tom Ollerton 15:07
So excuse me for being like, massively cynical here. We've both worked for agencies, right? So there's, there's a part of me, that thinks back to days when I used to work for and where someone's someone goes, Oh, the client wants to have a cool, creative incubator. We can come up with, like, mad stuff, and that's great. And then someone will, someone in operations go, are they going to pay us for that? And and then, then that, sort of, coupled with the the procurement side of things, where procurement go, Look, we want this list of things, but you're charging too much money. And then it's all sort of discussion about de scoping, so, like, both of those are quite, I don't want to say toxic, but, like, harsh realities of supplier-buyer relationships. So how do you get around that? How would you make sure that you are getting that, that blue sky, thinking the bottom drawer stuff, the innovation and the talent went without it just coming down to a cost, about hours?
Philipp Schuster 15:58
Well, I mean, I think with with that specific in that specific case, first and foremost, we only do this with our closest and most strategic partners. So, you know, I've tiered our partners, you know, and we're talking at the tier one partner. So it's not, not everyone you know who is doing a project here and there is joining is the one is the partners who know us best to have with whom we have a significant scope and and work, you know, and work relationship. And so, you know, therefore the, you know, we basically go to them and say, Hey, this is the voluntary program. You can, you can, you can join this, but you don't have to. And, you know, once a year, you can present the these ideas to us. And you can present as many or as little as you want. You can present one idea. You can present 10 ideas. It's really up to you. And and then we look at below, we look at them across our partners. And then we award, we award the best of them, you know. And, and that might be, might be, 2345, it depends a little bit on how much money, of course, we have available. The idea, the idea, the initial idea development, that's not paid, but it's basically paid if we execute and, and, yeah, I think what I've been hearing from our parties, like, you know, this is exactly the kind of stuff they want to do, right? Because it gives them, you know, it gives them a different way how, how they interact with us, you know, whether they're not tied into a into a very, you know, quite narrow set of a brief, maybe of a conventional brief, they can really do big blue, blue skies, thinking and but they do it also in a way that, you know, it's efficient for them. It's not something where we say, okay, you have to deliver this next week, right? So we give them two months to work on this. Ian, you know, and they, they know about, you know, the same time of year when we do it, so they can, it can basically be an exercise all year round. So it's fairly resource conscious, right? And they can do this also across the entire network. So it's not just one office working on this. It can, you know, go across different agencies, and even beyond, you know, across the entire holding company. So when we work with, as we work with the holding companies now, they pitch this to their to multiple agencies and therefore, actually, yeah, it has really worked. We will change it now. In the future, we will make some some tweaks to that as we are going into a new operating model. But I think the essence of it, you know, the overallobjective of it, that will, you know, we will, we will keep that intact, and I will be very protective of that. So, so, yeah, it's, it's, it's it, yeah, and again, it's, it has, it has worked. It has worked for us and the partners. In the last couple of years, we we won five Lions with that, and we weren't even focusing on, on on Lions before, right? It really has coincided with this drive to become, let's say, you know, a more, you know, a more creative, you know, organization, and this incubator was really an accelerator for that.
Tom Ollerton 19:15
So what would your advice be to a CMO or even a CEO that's listening to this thinking, right? Yeah, I can, I can see the value in having someone in that role, or people sharing that role. What would your advice be to those people, to get started, to replicate what they have achieved with with strategic partnerships?
Philipp Schuster 19:35
Well, I mean, I can say, so what, in our case, what Patricia has done, what we have done over the last few years. It's basically, I think, looking for, in my case, looking for maybe a resource and a talent who has, has the has a fitting profile. And I'm not saying that it had people have to have the same profile as me, but someone who is, who has maybe an understanding of agency, has been an agency has maybe worked in procurement. I think that background helped me as well, and and, and really wants to, you know, wants to help elevating those, those partnerships, you know, is interested in finding ways to to maximize, to maximize those, those relationships. I mean, it was already something I tried and I did in my procurement role, but I think the impact and the leverage I had in procurement was somewhat limited, but I honestly it doesn't, I don't think it needs much more than that. I think, like in our case, it needed, it needed. Maybe, you know, the someone who believes in it, from a, you know, from a marketing perspective, in that case, Patricia, you know, she really, she really pushed it, you know, in her role as a global CMO, I think also we were, our organization was somewhat ready for it. I mean, we had, we have a fairly at the time, we have, we have a fairly good procurement team. So we, we we had the foundation for it in place, and then, yeah, it's about maybe really having, then the right partners, having the right ecosystem of partners and and I'll be be able to shape that ecosystem to to a place where partners can work together, because cook can work well together, because I think that's, of course, the, let's say, the Holy Grail, making sure that not only you have good relationships between, you know, the self and the agency or the partners, but but also make sure that you work in an environment where partners work well together. And that's not easy, right? That's not something we we were able to do on day one. You know that that was a journey. And, I mean, that's never finished, because there is a certain level of competition, of course, between, you know, in that environment, as the outlines and but you have to find ways to turn that into, let's say, what I call it like healthy tension. So it's good to have sometimes tension, but it has to be productive. It has to be, it has to go, you know, it has to be channeled, to be, you know, yeah, to go into the right direction. And then, you know, partners and us, you know, we can, you know, we can make each other better, right? We can, like, in sports, you know, like, where, you know, you play better against the better team, right? Like, that's the kind of standard you want to have. And then I think, you know, there's really a lot of things you can do and and then the trajectory of of your of your entire ecosystem is, is going going going forward and going right direction.
Tom Ollerton 22:38
So unfortunately, we're gonna have to leave it there. But if someone wanted to get in touch with you about anything, we've talked to today, strategic partnerships or otherwise, where's the best place to get in touch and what makes a message that you will actually reply to?
Philipp Schuster 22:53
Well, you can, you can just get in touch with me directly on LinkedIn. I mean, I'm quite responsive on it. I mean, I'm also here, based in Greater London, so very happy to have a personal conversation at some point, if you are in London, I'm attending a range of events throughout the year, the key industry events, you know, with Alliance WFA, also still the marketing procurement events. Of course, I still have good, good relationships there. I'm on the advisory board for procure con, for example. So yeah, but yeah, I think maybe the most direct one and easiest one is LinkedIn. So if you reach out to me, I'll definitely respond.
Tom Ollerton 23:36
Fantastic, Philipp, thank you so much for your time.
Philipp Schuster 23:38
Thank you.
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