Episode 148 / Kieran Foley / Danone / Head of Partnerships and Licensing
Why Women’s Sport is the Future of Brand Sponsorship
In his role as Head of Partnerships and Licensing at Danone, Kieran Foley works on all the brand’s major programmes and sponsorships, from NBC Universal to Disney and the NFL as well as charities and various other initiatives. His career in sponsorship and partnership spans multiple countries, initiatives and ideas, including starting a new Cricket League. Kieran’s Shiny New Object is the growth potential of women’s sport, a great opportunity for brands to make a big societal impact.
Working as Chief Marketing Officer at Digicel, Kieran developed and launched the CPL T20 cricket league in the Caribbean. Capitalising on the opportunity created by a marketing problem for the company at the time, he was able to identify the cultural and societal importance of cricket in the area and how supporting the development of the league would yield great benefits for the people and for the brand.
This connection between the brand and the sport is what drives his interest in his Shiny New Object, the growth potential of women’s sport. In recent years, Kieran has observed the change in interest and impact of women’s sport. Men are now 40% likely to watch women’s sporting events and 60% likely to uptake on commercial activity as a result of a brand being involved in women’s programming. At the same time, the quality of the sport is amazing and very engaging.
This makes sponsorship of women’s sport an excellent brand opportunity, where the costs are lower and the touchpoints available to the population are so much more numerous. Brands can more easily create unique interactions between fans and athletes and also make an impact in communities, adding to their consumer connection.
To hear more marketing advice from Kieran and listen to his experiences and thoughts on sponsorship and marketing, listen to the podcast
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Tom Ollerton 0:51
Hello, and welcome to the Shiny New Object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of Automated Creative, and this is a weekly show about the future of marketing every week or so I have the pleasure and the privilege of interviewing one of our industry's leaders and this week is no different. I want to call with Kieran Foley, who is Head of partnerships and licensing at Danone. Kieran, for anyone listening to this podcast who isn't aware of who you are and what you do. Could you give them an overview
Kieran Foley 1:21
I think other than my mother who may listen to this I would imagine that's the majority Tom so sure thing I'd be happy to. Irish born and bred if you haven't heard it in the accent, I went to university there, started my world in tech went through CPG or FMCG as they call it in Europe, CPG as they call it in in the States. So basically Heineken and got my first kind of major role with O2 in Ireland and I headed up sponsorship there. So I was lucky to do some of the big deals like Irish rugby, English rugby, the O2 arena, the Ryder Cup European open. So it was it was a fun time it was really, really cool. I moved from there to Digicel, which was a communications company started in the Caribbean when I was there, it was in 12 markets, very quickly went to be in a 32 markets across two continents. I started as the head of sponsorships and rose to being the chief marketing officer there. We were about two and a half billion dollar revenue company with about 18 million customers that was all about growth in emerging markets. That was it was a fun time and the company moved to being acquired by a company which basically means we did media as well as following the broadband, etc. A lot of content. I went back, I started my own consulting, then I did some stuff, I tried to broker the sale of a premier league team to some Asian individuals. And I moved back into CPG recently at Danone where I head up partnerships and licensing, which effectively means I look after all of our partnership programs from the NFL, to Disney to NBC Universal to charities to sustainability programs, etc. So it's a major company. It's great to get back into into a big American powerhouse, they're French actually but we're headquartered in the US market in New York. And it's great to be part of a big company again. One thing I left out was during my trip, probably one of my highlights my career was by started, created, conceived, created and developed a Cricket League, which is now number two in the world called CPL T20. It took me about two, three years to do that, but have a lot of fun. And it's really great to see it every year just doing ever so well.
Tom Ollerton 4:00
Right, so tell me more about that. How did that particular invention so you created it, you can see that you got it open?
Kieran Foley 4:07
So funny story well enough for me. So we were the when I was at Digicel. I was the head of sponsorships originally and then the CMO and during my time there, we sponsored the West Indies cricket board. There was an awful lot of competitive elements around that. And a chap named Alan Stanford who was a billionaire financier who owned the bank actually in Antigua. He sponsored an event called T20 for 20. And effectively he took the West Indies team called them his team and brought in our competitor. So long story short, we had to go to high court in London and follow some legal challenges to protect our rights. I will say this is after several attempts to try and mitigate the issue and find a resolve that was amicable for everybody was just wasn't going to happen at the end. So we were left to have to defend our rights because we paid up to 10 million a year. And it was just not okay to just completely usurp our rights. So after we won that hands down, including award of damages, we then settle them. Look we got going. Now my Chairman at the time spoke to me and said, Listen, what's the story here? Because obviously, these, these are not good partners. But they were in financial trouble. So what I did was managed to speak to the chairman and said, Look, I understand that marketing is going one way and cost is going the other way. And so the value of this product is not on the face of it good. But what is an unspoken data point is that you wouldn't know what if you looked at data and just spreadsheets and the fact of media numbers are what was going on and content. The reality was, this is intrinsic to the culture of the people of the West Indies, which was the heartbeat of where the company started. Now, the reality was, they were under English rule for so many years, they came out of it and got their independence in the 60s 70s different countries, obviously at different times. And they were able to not just compete, but beat and remain unbeaten and be number one on the world, including beating the English team and the Test cricket in the 80s with the likes of Mikey Holding and Viv Richards, I mean, these guys are legends, these, these people are just absolute legends inside the all the countries of the Caribbean. And they competed and were number one of the world and they brought the countries of the West Indies to a place that was unthought of prior. And so it's the cultural value of the sport was far beyond any data point or what was occurring at the time. The reality being, you needed to understand that the sport itself and I'm not my my background is football or soccer if you're in America.
And I played, I left out that I actually played professionally during my time as well. So I understood that the sport could have that unwritten dimension on people's interaction with brand. And I knew that if we just cut, cut it loose, we'd be in serious trouble because our brand had, you know, it had a massive affinity rate it was in the a high 80s and a 98% awareness level. So we were bigger than Coke, we still love saying that. But the reason we were was because we got inside the community. We worked, we were interactive. And we understood what value was to people's lives, their culture and their interactivity. So it wasn't just a data point. So it was very important that we not lose that. But we're a company so we can't keep spending loads of money and not getting enough value out of it. So I came up with an idea of saying, Listen, this new fad has started called the T 20. Cricket. In India, they're making money hand over fist. Everywhere else in the world they have failed and trying to replicate it. Bangladesh, tried and failed. Sri Lanka tried and failed. The only other place that was kind of doing okay, it was Australia. And they had the big bash. What the in the West Indies they had tried to do it. But obviously this guy Stanford, he just poured at the time it was unknown what he was doing, it came out and he's since been arrested by the federal authorities in the States. But that's another story. But the reality was that I could see that there was a model there now I've been lucky in in in developing, restructuring the soccer or football as we call it across the Caribbean and Central America under UNCAF and the CFU which are the two bodies that sit under CONCACAF, which is the body that looks after football for North America and the Caribbean. And essentially what I did was I said to my boss, look, I think that we could make a business model here. If we take the rice of this new fad on it, develop it, structure it and roll it out. So he said Okay, tell me how you're going to do it. So over the course of a year and a half, I devised a commercial model. I agreed a sanctioning contract, which was a 50 year deal, which, in and of itself is the only one of its kind in the world. The only one close to it would have been what Formula One what Ecclestone did with Formula One where we took all the commercial rights, but left the authorities of the actual sport under the governance of the of the international body itself. So it was super important that it was official cricket, but it was also super important that we had the destiny on the commercial rights, because we had to make it as a commercial product. So we ran it out with six franchises, I agreed with governments exactly how we would place it inside their countries and how they would host it. I sold three the six franchises in the first year. And it was rolled out to massive success. And in year two, we, you know, we broke even actually turned a slight profit by selling the other three teams that were there. So it's gone. hugely successful, it's over 250 million people watching it. It's in year 8, just finished. So it's now number two in the world. And that was a fun, fun, brilliant period where there was a marketing problem and a challenge and we turned it into an advantage and a new business and a new commercial Avenue.
Tom Ollerton 10:53
So within that experience, and your many other varied experiences was your top marketing tip, what is the bit of advice that did you find yourself sharing most often?
Kieran Foley 11:07
Yeah, I think I'm a great believer in having information. And information is usually based on the data that you receive the media reports, very clear understanding about, you know, all the insights that you do all of that I I'm a huge believer in having as much data as you can. But I'm also a huge believer in having that unspoken understanding about how do you create commerce and interactivity. So it's not just the visible data on your spreadsheet, but the understanding you have of what the cultural impact is, and what the impact is on people, and how you can make a clear interactivity for them to create that avenue of commerce. So if you just leave it as a spreadsheet, and it's it, it's an obvious truism to say, you know, there's more than just what's there on the spreadsheet. But it's the understanding, getting into the nuances of where this has come from, how it was progressed, why it is the way it is, how do we speak to different cultures, or different segments within that, and is this the best vehicle to do it, it may not be exploited at the time because it's tired, or it's old, or, you know, there's been had poor management, there's lots of different reasons. So and I've seen that when, as I said, when I joined digitel, was at 1012 markets, and we soon rolled out to been a 32. Every time we went into a new market, we understood the culture as much as we understood the commerce and so that we could really resonate and become locally real and locally relevant and really part of the culture as quickly as we could.
Tom Ollerton 12:53
So how would you advise people to do that? I mean, it's one thing saying, Yeah, read the numbers, but also understand the cultural context within which you're operating. But unlike, say, you're going to a completely new market, you may have heard of utopia, but never actually been there. How do you how do you as an outsider, learn that?
Kieran Foley 13:12
I haven't worked for tech companies. Obviously, I'm a big proponent of tech and using that, and I love this, you can work from home. But if ever there was a big contract, or a big deal, I would never ever sign it without flying over going face to face. I've never signed any, any personality ever. And I've signed some of the biggest personalities and sports personalities and music personalities the world has ever known. And I would never do it without sitting down and knowing the person or the property. So give you an example. I my first place that I went to was Haiti. And so before they went to Haiti, I looked on the website and the FBI websites and the various Google that looked at all these websites. And effectively they were saying at the time, look, unless you have unless you're an NGO, or you're part of something very, very specific. This is not an a destiny that you should go to, and that the levels of the levels of education were lower than normal, the poverty levels were actually higher than normal. So there was a lot of pointers that you'd say, Oh my goodness, there's no way you could launch a business and effectively do so well there. But then I went to Haiti and I went to the iron market is a very well known place in Haiti. And you would not believe the amount of people that were around doing commerce and bartering and trying to you know, live survive, create new ways of working. It was unbelievable. The people are there are so ingenious if they did one job, I found they would do two to three jobs would not just be one thing that they could do. And so my point is, is that if you read it, you think there's no way, there's no way we could do business there. But if you actually went there, and you realized, yeah, I've got to change my model, I can't have the same pricing. But the quantities here and the the levels that we could get to our exponential, we just have to give these people access, because they will take up on it. So it was that understanding that you know, getting I know, people say, get your hands dirty, literally getting into the crowds to understand how it takes to understand exactly how people work, how you create that interaction with them. And I could never have gotten that on a data point, you need to walk straight, you needed to understand that you needed to get involved. And that's one thing that I've always tried to do. Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 15:59
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So we're at the halfway point now, and we're going to talk about your shiny new object, which is one we've never had before on this podcast. I'm grateful for it. And it's the growth potential of women's sport. So why is that your shiny new object for the marketing industry?
Unknown Speaker 16:55
So I've been fortunate in my new role at Danone where I've come across, and I've been in various committees and groups, where I've come across some of the leaders of the bigger brands that get involved in partnerships and programming. And a lot of them have the especially after the pandemic, have had questions over value, and how do we create new ways of interactivity with, with consumers, especially as we go into this new world, that's a lot more not in person, but rather, media driven or content driven. So there's always been the obvious understandings of the big marquee and global brands and leagues and sports, etc. Entertainment, as well. That's changed a bit. You saw huge drops in numbers during the pandemic, various reasons. But what was really interesting was the rise of women's sport, and it wasn't so much just a talk and tokenism. But when you see what the women's soccer team, especially the state's how they've taken, not just the sport, but society, you have players from the National Women's Soccer League in the States going to Congress and going to speak to the President about equality. This is not like, I know that the men's basketball team they've stood up for in the States especially they stood up for various rights, Black Lives Matter, equality, inclusivity, diversity, etc. But the vehicles and the ways in which women are doing it and the women's sport, they're doing it. If you look at UEFA, they've tripled the size of the payments for the prize winners of the of the Champions League, FIFA, likewise, they've increased for the FIFA World Cup, the Irish national team have now taken payment of women and then on the exact same level on their contracts. So it's just massive the sea change and the development. But what I found really interesting and really positive is that men are 40% likely to watch women's sport and 60% likely to uptake on any commercial activity as a result of a brand being involved in women's programming. So it's no longer what it used to be. However, media is less than 2% of global media is afforded to women sports. Now it was less than 1%, about three or four years ago. So some could say hey, it's doubled. It's still nowhere near where it should be. But I see nothing but massive growth potential for us. Sponsorship dollars have been down again, they've they've increased but globally, it's about one and a half to 2% of total global sponsorship dollars go into women's room in sports, but it's it has increased in the last few years, especially again, nowhere near the level it should be when I look at it from a brand perspective. Not only do you have the growth, the development, the associations and Federations actually not just being tokenism or putting proper development structures in place. You also now have brands start to realize, hey, this isn't just a sport, it's actually societal. It actually does resonate, and people are hugely taking up on it. I think it's, it's, I have two daughters, but it's, it's actually not to do with it. It's more of the case that these athletes are fantastic and the sport is just as good and the viewership is just as good. And on the FIFA World Cup in 2019 proved that a lot. But look at the WNBA, look at there's a new Commissioner there, Kathy Engelberg, what she's been doing, and how their numbers have grown. And so as the sport is attracting and holding its own, the development side of it needs to increase, and that needs more dollars, and brands need to get behind that. But I'm excited to see the change the sea change, and I think that's a huge green field for a lot of brands to get behind.
Tom Ollerton 21:06
What do you suggest that that brand activity consists of? Is it like just replicating the men's game? Or does it require a different type of damage? I can't think what the difference would be but is there? Is it a different type of crowd? Is it different things required? Or does it? Is there a new sort of creativity that's needed? Or is it just more money?
Kieran Foley 21:32
So first of all, I think it will actually be less money because the fees and rights demand at the moment are not as large as some of the men's league certainly compared to the NBA with a WNBA, or the MLS with the NWS out here in the States, or even in, in, in Europe, the Super League there along with some of the Premier League, right? So the reality is, is that it does cost less which allows you for more activation dollars, but where I think that there's a huge difference is community best. So I first of all, I think it should follow the same programming as you do at a men's team, there should be no difference, content driving, working with players driving the brand at the team's programs of the major competitions, leagues, etc, etc, etc, branding, etc. But what is different is there's a stronger community appreciation, there's more of an intrinsic value for you to interact with your consumers through these properties and create that gateway for them. Because it's more, they feel that they can relate more on touch touch points stronger touchpoints than you could with the men's team, the chances of meeting Lina unless you're doing a lot of cons pretty slim, the chances of you went to a game and getting mega rap in order to stand on a picture which are pretty high. So the reality is, is that it feels for community, greater interactivity, more real more touch points. So it gives you that stronger chance to create those moments that people look the seek, which they really want. And and you have to understand how you become part of that narrative, what drive the content and create your own positioning, so that you as a brand are able to leverage that positioning, what you're just using the property that that that you're sponsoring. So I think it gives brands more and I think I'd love to see that the leagues and the properties, make sure that they put those back into the development and grow the league. So and grow the sport and grow you know, younger girls, and boys I'd like to see boys and girls when the youth programs we've ever done and we've always done a lot of them. We've always including boys and girls. So I think having them play together and seeing an equal feel that at a young age is isn't is important.
Tom Ollerton 24:05
So if there's a brand marketer listening to this thinking, right, I've got to get on on top of this on I want to make my brand part of this growing opportunity and, and women's sport, what would you say are the sensible next steps to get started here.
Kieran Foley 24:25
It's a brilliant opportunity. It's a fantastic time because it's not just the sport that's been recognized, but it's the societal sweep change that's been happening and the conversations are a lot more fluid open and recognized than they ever were. So if there was a chance for you to get on board. When you look at the growth, especially as I mentioned the two big ones being the NWSL which have gone from 10 teams about to be 12 teams. I see them where the MLS was 20-30 years ago. And I see them adding franchises as they go forward, especially knowing the World Cup is here in '26. And I know that there's desire to bring the Women's World Cup here in '27. So the opportunity to get involved in the States especially, and you see the same in Europe with with, with the growth of the, all of the English teams in the Women's League, in in England, and across Europe, coming in at a league or a team level, and understanding how you influence culture and influence societal community programs, with brands, how they can be part of a bigger conversation than just sport, I think it's going to be a huge advantage as we go forward in this kind of tech relevant world for interactivity. But still, always being mindful of the growth of society and societies conversations, being part of sport, you can't separate anymore.
Tom Ollerton 26:05
Kieran unfortunately, we're gonna leave it there. If someone wanted to get in touch with you to talk about your kind of mad career, but also your vision for the future of industry and the growth in women's sports. How'd you like to do that?
Kieran Foley 26:21
Yeah, more than happy to have the conversations with anybody. I'm on LinkedIn, Kieran Foley dash NY I think it is. And my email is on that contact info as well. So I'm very happy to link in I'll always reply to you.
Tom Ollerton 26:40
So what makes a good LinkedIn outreach message to you?
Kieran Foley 26:45
Being genuine, not not having a copy and paste effect are, you know, straightaway asked, but try and give an understanding of the why. And you know, how it could make sense to connect. So I know a lot of people are very, very busy. But I have to say, I'll always try someone's respectful on the other on a message, always reply because, I mean, everybody's trying to go in the same direction. So I'd like to think that vice at the message, someone replied to me, so I was doing the courtesy to try and reply.
Tom Ollerton 27:17
Kieran, thank you so much for your time.
Kieran Foley 27:20
Thanks very much. Appreciate the time.
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