Episode 143 / Jerry Daykin / GSK / Senior Media Director
Discovering the 6 Ps of Transformation
As the Senior Media Director for EMEA and LatAm at GSK, Jerry Daykin covers all the marketing for brands “that help consumers live slightly better and healthier lives” – from Sensodyne to Voltarol. Jerry is also a regular of the show, having been on our podcast four times now! His Shiny New Object is the 6 Ps of transformation, a new take on the 4 Ps of marketing that accounts for what it takes to make digital transformation yield results for businesses.
In the past year dealing with COVID-induced prolonged screen time and the roller coaster of emotions brought on by the current climate, Jerry has become much more deliberate about balancing physical with intellectual activity. As his new behaviour, he’s become a “mad Peloton fan,” kickstarting his days with exercise to ensure he moves more every day.
He’s also prioritising and deliberately scaling down on meetings, welcoming interactions with agencies where weekly catch-ups can cover a multitude of points in favour of having multiple individual meetings.
When he thinks about how he’d like to be remembered in his career, Jerry wishes that people think of him as someone who made marketing better. He wants to have driven some change but also some good results for businesses. This is why his Shiny New Object is the 6 Ps of transformation.
Briefly, these include: people (stoking their fire for change and getting teams to communicate better), partners (engaging with the right ones to be more efficient), processes (enhancing and making them efficient and productive), passion (and promoting passionately what you believe in, internally and externally), and pilots (testing and learning).
Working with Automated Creative, GSK put the P for Pilot in practice for their brand Sensodyne: “We’ve been using… AI to have different creative executions to see how people respond to them and try and hone in on how do we spot this audience from just the fact that they might vaguely pay attention to something if we shape it right for them.”
To find out more of Jerry’s marketing tips, listen to his explanation of the 6 Ps, and hear him talk about post-COVID habits, listen to the podcast.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Tom Ollerton 0:00
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Hello, and welcome to the Shiny New Object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of Automated Creative and this is a podcast about the future of marketing every week or so. I have the pleasure and the privilege of interviewing one of our industry's leaders. And this week is no different. I'm on a call with Jerry Daykin, who is Senior Media Director at GSK. Jerry it's your fourth appearance on the podcast but for those who don't know who you are and what you do, could you give the audience an overview?
Jerry Daykin 1:21
I think it's a record breaking forth isn't it which is you know, time has become into Olympic Games sesons and I think this is the is the Olympic Games of marketing podcasts so proud to be breaking records here. Yeah, my my day job at GSK. I've worked in various different local global digital, regional, media and digital worlds largely in the kind of consumer goods well, so I used to work at Cadbury at Mondelez,, I've worked at Diageo. I've done a bit of time agency side, Carat, and these days I work at GSK consumer healthcare, which is Sensodyne and Panadol and Advil and Voltarol and lots of really great brands that help consumers live slightly better and healthier lives. And I lead our EMEA, and now recently, our LatAm Media teams, helping us spend, you know, over a half a billion pounds worth of advertising money, and across TV and digital channels with a team that tries to work out how on earth we should spend that and where on earth, we should spend that. And people may hear from me elsewhere that I'm pretty passionate about diversity, inclusion, some of the change, we want to drive in our industry. And I wear a bunch of different hats and rant about that, including on some of our previous podcasts.
Tom Ollerton 2:37
So amongst all of those many hats, and that's very big and responsible position at GSK. And what are the new things? What are the new beliefs, what the new behaviors that you've found yourself? believing or applying in the last year or so, based on the experience we've all just been through?
Jerry Daykin 3:00
Yeah, I was thinking because the last time we spoke was naively and I think in February, so last year, when we were kind of chatting away in the publisher's office with no idea was coming out of us, I think I've been lucky enough to be you know, fully busy and in work, etc, for the past year. But I think like many people in that situation, it's been a bit of a roller coaster, nonetheless, in terms of just how busy how intense how working from home, whilst the flexibility and all those things has some great advantages. There's also been just, you know, an awful lot of video calls an awful lot of stuff in front of a desk chatting and talking to people etc. So I guess some of the probably the key two biggest things is: one, this has always been a key thing. But something I've never that good around my prioritization around, saying no to some things around, work out how you can condense things like if you know, I work a lot with publicists, an agency rather than having lots and lots of different meetings, let's let's have a weekly catch up, and let's put things on that agenda and use that time efficiently. And everyone has really been around kind of balance and mental health and wellness and just, I'm not a massive exerciser or anything like that. So, you know, maybe you won't find me at the gym or anything that before this. But, you know, just day to day life, you're fairly active. And I found that, you know, you have to be much more deliberate on that. So pretty much every day that we've had some heat recently, let's maybe challenge that a little bit every day, I try and pick at least one meeting, I'm going to take walking so that I get a bit of fresh air stretch, stretch the legs and you know, just get them exercise. And also I've become a mad Peloton, fan, and try and do that most mornings to kind of start my day with a bit of energy. So just try to be a bit more deliberate about the fact that we don't just move around naturally. So you've got to think about it. And I think that really helps a lot with the focus with the day job. And with yeah, surviving in the slightly bonkers world.
Tom Ollerton 4:58
And so that's it. The day to day but coming from a completely different perspective, what? Or In what way? Would you like people to remember your career?
Jerry Daykin 5:11
I think, in a certain sense, I love people to think about me as someone who came and made marketing better, maybe even the whole marketing industry better. That's a fairly, you know, it might seem like an outrageous claim, actually, I think every single person listening to this could could make the marketing industry better. And I mean that because in a slightly weird way, I'm actually so passionate about marketing in itself. And I really believe that I want our discipline to be better, more effective, more analytical in his thinking, but also more diverse, more inclusive, more open minded, more progressive. And, yeah, I do talk about and challenge a lot of those areas. And I definitely would like to think at the end of the day, people would remember that I drove some change in our spaces, but ultimately, you know, drove great results for businesses and help them change and adapt in what they were doing.
Tom Ollerton 6:03
So I'm kind of a little bit cynical about this, maybe it's my agency background. But when I sort of came into the industry around sort of 2008, what was really cool was like sort of greenwashing, talking about green everything was, and I sort of noticed there's always a trend, certainly for agencies to kind of jump on to the thing that makes them look good. Because let's be honest, there's some elements of advertising and marketing that they kind of saw borderline, whether it's ethical or not. Now, certain products, the way that certain things are advertised, that might be genuinely unhealthy for, you know, kids or adults. But I, my cynical view, thinks that agencies in particular, can jump onto those things to help them feel better about themselves. And this reminded, kind of stopped me the other day when I was taking a brief. And in the brief, it said, something along the lines of Oh, what's really important to this audiences is sustainability. So therefore, you know, we really need to talk about that. It wasn't like, our sustainability is like a really important thing. And we should, a business should be all over that. It was just like, No, well, that's what the consumer wants. So we will, like alter our message to kind of reflect that. And then, and then another conversation a little while ago, I heard about a client talking about, like, bumping up the diversity. And every now and again, I hear these things where it just makes me feel like, is this actually coming from a place of care? Or is it coming from a place of like survival? And you know, saying whatever it takes to win the work, very cynical view. But where do you land on that?
Jerry Daykin 7:47
Yeah, there's some really fair challenges in there. I think the answer is, I probably land somewhere in the middle there, marketers definitely have a bit of a guilt complex. I think some of the more purposeful marketing that's popular these days, sometimes seems to stem from the fact that people aren't willing to say, you know, my day job is to sell stuff, make money, often help a big giant, global corporation become even richer, which, you know, for many of us who work in marketing, that is, ultimately what our day job is. But I absolutely think marketing is something bigger than that, as well, marketing funds, a lot of things, it has a lot of impact on society, it can drive a positive change. And just because you're doing something that's commercial and business orientated, absolutely doesn't mean you can't do that in a way that, you know, make enriches the world around, it makes it a better place. I think it's positive that more agency more companies are becoming aware of that. I would, I think you've seen many cases where that is really, really driven by a genuine passion of that business, by the passionate people within it. But yes, you also find cases where it's slightly cynically driven by, you know, consumers wanting this or, you know, this being the latest trendy thing, but, you know, again, marketing is about being consumer led. So, if you identify that consumers care about sustainability, that's not not a bad thing. And if that gives you a kick up the backside, that's not a bad thing. But the response probably shouldn't be to brief someone, how can I talk a bit about sustainability? And more more wider question of, you know, how am I solving the sustainability in my business? Am I actually doing credible steps that mean, I have the right to talk about it? And yeah, there's a long, there's a long way to go and some of that stuff. But for the most part, I think, even if, even if people end up doing it for the wrong reasons. It's still a good progress to be made, and ultimately special in the diversity point. Yes, it can be sort of trendy if you if you can say that enough at the moment to kind of support certain causes and back certain movements, etc. But ultimately, it's fundamentally our job as marketers to understand our consumers, to communicate effectively to them, and to make them care about us. What about us think about us. And you can do that better. If you understand that your consumers are not all an average. homogenous blob, they are unique and diverse. And there are many things that connect us. And there are many things that make people different and have different expectations. And better understanding you have that the better, you'll be a marketer. So you don't, you don't need to have some higher purpose in life, for inclusion and representation to actually be your job as a marketer. That's a whole different podcast. And in fact, we talk a lot about that.
Tom Ollerton 10:27
So I'm curious to know, before we get on to your shiny new objects, do you have a killer marketing top tip that you find yourself bestowing to your team? Or you know, something you heard at the start of your career or something you heard last week?
Jerry Daykin 10:42
Like, yeah, a good thing I was told once, I can't remember who by but I repeat it regularly now. Is we as marketers, we spent a lot of time if we're honest, dealing with politics, and internal bringing people along the internal journey? And how do we persuade our colleagues and our bosses to do things. And we do a great job as marketers of understanding consumers and what their barriers are and what they care about. But I actually don't think we often spend the time thinking about that on our stakeholders. So the simple tip was, if you're, you know, think, think about your the internal sales pitch, you're doing the same way you would an external think about, you know, what is in it for your boss, or your colleagues, what do they care about? And one of the biggest things is to put try and put yourselves in their shoes, and some of the reasons they would say no to the great thing you're proposing. And it's often very simple things like, gosh, that sounds like it would take a lot of my time. And all that's a bit scary, because I'm not sure you know, I'm not sure I have enough on my plate already. And if you kind of understand what some of those obvious objections are, and you can tackle them in advance, and you'll find it much easier to get to persuade the people around you to do the things that you think they should be doing. So yeah, think about your internal sales pitch and your target audience to just as much as you do your external one. Because like it or not be one of the big jobs that said, If you work in a big company, one of your jobs is to, to persuade lots of other people to do stuff, which you know, is the idea.
Tom Ollerton 12:11
Yeah, it's interesting that because sales is, I think, sort of seen a bit of a dirty profession in some ways. And, like, I'm sure there's people all over the industry who don't consider themselves salespeople. I'm sure there's rafts of creative people at agencies, you know, that Oh, we're not we're not salespeople, we would never do that, you know, we creatives or strategists, or whatever, but in reality...
Jerry Daykin 12:37
We're all selling aren't we, we're always selling.
Tom Ollerton 12:39
Yeah. And and I can't remember where, he talks about the the president of the USA, probably most powerful job in the world. And the way you get that is by pitching is by selling you on, you know, on multiple occasions over many, many years. So the ultimate job in the world is a sales gig really, in some senses, and I've never heard that articulated by anyone on this show. But that's, that's a really nice point that and I'm definitely guilty of that. I'm like, Oh, well, I'm just I'm just telling the guys on my team about this. And his uh, yeah, I'll not put them making the slides look nice. Because Yeah, because it's only internal. But I think you're absolutely right. If you really want people to buy it and do it and get on board with it, you need to, you need to pull out the fireworks.
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So we are at the halfway stage now roughly. So we're going to talk about your shiny new object which has such a cool name, which is the six P's of transformation. And sounds like it should be written on a tablet of stone somewhere. But Jerry, what are the six P's of transformation?
Jerry Daykin 14:27
I'm slightly joking because there are obviously four famous Ps of marketing to do of how you actually do marketing and I was just trying to think about I guess the nub of this was that you know, I think digital transformation particularly just wider business marketing transformation is something that we endlessly talk about. But sometimes we give more lip service to than actually doing and in particular, I think you know, digital transformations and that we you know, we talk a lot about and everyone loves to you know, my big think piece about how we do it, but it's rare. You hear people talk about practically How did they actually drive it and you Especially it's quite rare in the kind of role I do, you know a big global advertiser working across, you know, my region has over 100 markets, hundreds or even 1000s, of marketers and things. How do you actually drive that that change? So the kind of the shiny object was, yeah, not just talking about about actually doing it, I was sort of trying to brainstorm with myself. You know, I joined GSK, two and a half years ago, feels much longer. COVID years, I suppose. And, you know, in simplest terms, we were like spending less than 20% of our media in digital, we were really kind of behind where consumers were behind where we need to be. Fast forward. And we're now over 40% across a really varied region, doing some really interesting testing learns uses of data ecommerce stuff. Yes, a lot of change in the world around us. But fundamentally, we've had to drive a massive change in the business and, and what do we do it to drive it? And yet an actual answer to your question, when I was trying to put my put my thoughts together, I came up with people, partners, the processes, the passion, or even the promotion of it, pilots, and performance, which is quite a lot to get through. But we could probably whiz our way through some of it.
Tom Ollerton 16:10
yeah, so people, people first
Jerry Daykin 16:13
people, I mean, yeah, and I think this is this kind of thing you'd say in in a cheesy interview answer. But absolutely, you know, we think about when you think about digital transformation, it's easy to think about technology, it's easy to think about, you know, the big machinery and the Google tech stack, and all this kind of digital transformation, that actually digital transformation is really about the people, it's about dealing with the fact that, you know, across my region, we have hundreds of marketers, and even my own team, around, you know, around a dozen media people who many of them have been doing their job for many years who have got used to how companies do things, who, you know, many of you have a fire to drive change. But, you know, sometimes in big companies that you get beaten out of you and you think things aren't gonna change. So that and also for me, I found that a huge importance in community like I work in a regional job. A lot of my team don't ever see each other, except on a camera screen, of course, and people can be quite disconnected and isolated. And you know, we have great things happening in Italy, great things happening in Germany, great things happening in Saudi Arabia, great thing happening in Brazil, but how do you actually build a community of those people get them talking to each other, more, getting sharing more. And so that was really, the first the thing I was most struck by was that I had a team of around 10 people at the time, they barely, to be blunt, spoke to each other, they definitely didn't share that much. They were just kind of part of this loose organization. And so it's simple things like making them more connected, getting them talking to each other, but also empowering them. So everyone in my team, I asked not just to do their kind of day job, which is always looking after a specific market or area, but also to put their hands up to be involved in a more of a stretch project, which could be, you know, helping develop our ecommerce thinking it could be helping develop our data strategy, it could be helping develop our diversity and inclusion approach with the media. And I think that forces everyone on my team to not just think about what they're doing, but to listen to what their colleagues are doing to learn from them. And then also to bring their colleagues the marketers around them along for the journey, because, as with my marketing tip, it's no use shouting, Oh, do more digital or embrace these new opportunities that people you actually have to understand what their barriers are, why they've been hesitant in the past, what capability they need, what support they need, what hand holding they need. And yeah, with with, with the people at the heart of it, you know, you didn't get anywhere, introducing new technology, introducing new processes, unless you engage with the people, persuade the people and make them want to do something a bit different with our partners or partners is, I mean, I, in my former job at Diageo, I lead global media partners. And I'm absolutely of the mind that you can do things much better, much faster with partners and in my world that can include the likes of Google and Facebook and love them or hate them. They have great platforms, great technology. And absolutely we've we've focused a bit of our transformation on on using those and getting those big opportunities, right. But actually, when I think of partners, most of all, from a media perspective, I think of our agency, like I have, you know, dozen people in my team, but I've 300 plus people in my publicist team that covers that same area. I used to work in agency for a bit. So I have a fairly positive view on on agencies, they really see them as an extension of our team. And we actually we appointed Publicis, them allat the same time I joined and we've done some quite bold things of how we work with them, like we although all our media decisions and planning and thinking is done locally in the different markets across EMEA. We've reduced their digital hub. So there's a little over digital core team, a group of people that are headquartered in London, some fantastic people working for us in India to come Give us extra capacity. We've got many hubs in Poland and the Middle East, where we've actually brought a lot of digital thinking strategy and activation together. So rather than lots of different markets trying to work out, you know, what should I be doing? What's what a golden rules, what's best practice? What does innovation look like we have teams who are seeing that happening live across different markets, trying to optimize trying to improve on things. You know, they're pros, pros and cons of that, obviously, people love having that local nuance that that local viewpoint, but I really think that we've, we've built quite an interesting structure that makes the most of kind of the one publicist model, digitalis, some of the, you know, some of the teams that they have, and ensures that we have this kind of this core team that is challenging us to do things differently. And when, when we find something that we can do differently, like we've been doing some work on supply path optimization might sound a bit dull, but it's to do with, you know, measuring exactly where our digital media goes, which partners perform better where we lose it in the programmatic chain. When we've found things that work, we've been able to scale those really, really rapidly, thanks to having a partner who's got a network set up to match ours.
Tom Ollerton 21:12
So got to have the right people, as well as external partners. But how do you? How did you process so is it to invent new processes all the times? Or is it just kind of leaning back on models that you know, work?
Jerry Daykin 21:28
Yeah, I don't believe in over theorizing over process. But, you know, without embarrassing my own company, I was a little surprised when I joined GSK, a few years ago that we were quite very light on process in terms of, you know, standard models for how you might do briefing or how agencies might respond or how we should present our media and digital approaches. And although you can over engineer those things. I think having some of those frameworks are really, really critical. And in fact, my case my career has been dotted with with the fact of seeing the fact that frameworks can really help simplify, and drive change. At Mondelez, when digital was a bit of a mess, we developed something called storytelling at scale, which was a really simple framework about how marketers could approach it. At Diageo, when brand safety and viewability and things were crashing down around the industry, we created something called the trusted marketplace, which was a really simple framework for driving that. And within within GSK, I can remember where I kind of work, we've we've just introduced a range of things, some of which are quite simple like forcing our teams and our agency to present our media plans not just as linear media plans, but visual kind of connections, maps, where you can see how your channels come together, we've introduced a new sufficiency process, which is really about bringing analytical rigor to our marketing process so that when we speak to finance, when we speak to our leaders, we can justify our media decisions, we can challenge them, we can show why we need to have more investment right down through that funnel down at the e commerce media down at the different channels. And I think, again, I've tried to sort of simplify, which I've been a lot of our marketers are dealing with an awful lot of things. So having some clear processes, some clear guidance, and to clear things that just plug in and they say, oh, okay, I understand that. That's what I need. That's what I want to do. So, yeah, having a good strong media product media process. You know, don't over engineer things don't make it your media approach or paint by numbers. But some of that rigor, which you can set regionally or globally actually does help all the local teams come up with better end results. And then if you just leave everyone to kind of create their own way of doing things.
Tom Ollerton 23:38
So next on your list is passion or a promotion or promoting. So this, this sounds like the most vague of the lot.
Jerry Daykin 23:46
It's certainlty very important, which is that, at the end of the day, I think one of the things that really moves organizations, it certainly moves people is having passion is being caring, caring about stuff, I didn't even start to call it a passionate promotion. A promotion is one of the original four P's. It's the you know, the bit where advertisers advertise, and we talk to our consumers. And I guess as I hinted with some of my preamble, I actually think that, you know, if you're driving a transformation internally, you kind of have to advertise it as well. But you have to sell it into the people around it, you need to show that you're passionate about it, you need to tell them why it's a good idea. You need to show them what success looks like. And we've you know, we've done that in some internal ways that we have a monthly all hands call with several 100 people dialing in where we, we celebrate best practice, I try and sound incredibly passionate and enthusiastic about projects, which I'm not always as passionate about. But also like, externally, we started to talk more externally as a business, we started to try and make sure we enter and indeed, we've started to win a few more awards and things. And I think that matters because, you know, let's be honest, we work in marketing marketing is industry that is in part motivated by promotion, by advertising by what the trade press talks about. And I think it's important that you You help your colleagues realize and see understand and be recognized when they do great things. So when our markets do a great case study or do a great activation or dry something, we want to celebrate that we want to share that passion and make it infectious because nobody wants to do more digital and spend more digital and adopt more digital because they're told to, because they're the target they've been given. Because, you know, someone in global is tracking their spend, they want to do it, because it's the right thing to do. Because it's exciting, because it's the future of marketing because that consumers want it. So bring some of that passion in. And don't be afraid to do a bit of internal promotion, external promotion, because often your colleagues pay more attention to what's said about your business externally than internal. So make some noise, and then bring everyone along for the ride.
Tom Ollerton 25:51
So next up, is pilots. Tell me about that.
Jerry Daykin 25:56
Testing, and learning and piloting and a lot of what we've driven in when you're trying to drive a change across, you know, 100 markets, and, you know, literally hundreds of millions of pounds, we've moved from more traditional channels into digital opportunities. You know, you have to do some big scalable things, we have to do, you know, big programmatic approaches, and YouTube and Facebook partnerships. And we've really, really scaled some of those up. But we go to our scaling, saying, especially for that passion point, I was just mentioning that some of the most interesting stuff in digital is the new is the untested waters. Now you can't you can't get all in on pilots and all in on things that never been done before. And you know, new betas and things like that. But absolutely making sure a key part of your strategy is regionally globally and locally, testing new things, trying new things not being ashamed to do. So. We've done some great stuff with Tom with your good friends, Automated Creative, like with one of our brands Sensodyne. Trying to find people who have sensitive teeth actually don't really care enough to do anything about it. So they have relatively low data signals. They're not googling this or researching it or talking about it, they're kind of just learn to live with a slightly mild problem in their life. And we've been using, you know, AI to have different creative executions to see how people respond to them to try and hone in on how do we spot this audience from just the fact that they might vaguely pay attention to something if we shape it right for them. And in taking a pilot of that, and now we have some work to do on that particular pilot. But you know, when when things work, how can we scale them? How can we move them. Our GB teams, and some really interesting innovative partnerships with with different media owners, including, you know, diverse LGBT media owners to create new content to find new ways of working. And I think you know, you'll the structure, the process, the big stuff is important, but you want to be doing the really fantastically interesting innovative stuff, even if it's just the icing on the cake. Now, one day some of that stuff becomes business as usual. And the you know, you can't afford not to be developing it.
Tom Ollerton 27:57
And finally, performance, and we we debate this word a lot. But how does performance fit into these other Ps for digital transformation?
Jerry Daykin 28:09
Yeah, I think I mean, in the broadest sense in terms of does does it all work? Not necessarily just like digital performance media did we did we get someone to click and how much was their CPM but there's, there's no use making a song and a dance and celebrating, you know how much we've shifted our spend shifted, our approach shifted our strategies, if they don't deliver for our brands, you know, that's the whole point of marketing. It's nice to think about digital transformation and inclusion and things, but our job is to build brands and sell stuff. And that is, the biggest, long term unlock in driving any transformation is proving that the transformation you're driving is good for business. And that's true the inclusion stuff. It's true that the digital transformations stuff, we're also trying to drive a really big change in our business where we talk less about just the science and facts of our product and more about the emotional the reasons that the value they bring to consumers live because we know that that kind of emotional advertising has more impact. And so yeah, performance, there's a million different ways to measure stuff. My general mindset on that is that a lot of the easiest, most agile and most digital ways of measuring things don't tell you as much as you think, or would like them to tell you like you can work out very short term performance and clicks and views and things but that doesn't necessarily tell you what that's doing to your business. And some of them are much more unwieldy and slower and almost old school ways of looking at stuff in our business that can be big. MMM, econometric modeling, it's often brand tracking and surveys, or I think more increasingly, you doing agile things like running different campaigns in different cities seeing what happens like seeing you know, is this performing better in Birmingham and Manchester because we're using a slightly different mix of things. I think we are building a strong view of what works and what I always cautious because as soon as you go more into digital People have whole dashboards of numbers and they want you to optimize relentlessly to those, oh, you know, we can get cheaper CPM over here than there. But you have to ask some bigger questions like, Is it worth paying more for that placement for that audience for those people, but but at the end of the day, you have to find ways to measure. So whatever your business does, however it thinks, and as important in marketing, but it's even more important. And I mentioned that a bit with some of the process stuff earlier. But it's even more important when you come out of marketing, when you try and talk to your finance team, or your senior leadership, the people who ultimately control a bit of what you get to do. And we're massively going on a journey in this at GSK with a huge thing at Diageo as well, with some of the systems they had internally there, which is that you need to arm yourself in marketing to talk about sales, talk about long term and short term ROI. And then you're not just kind of asking for money or making stuff up, you're, you know, you're really coming with a with a business argument. So yeah, ties a bow and everything you're doing together to show that it works makes a difference. And hey, we should do a bit more. Yeah, all of which, combined, is how we've kind of driven this huge transformation across like the GSK consumer healthcare business with, with different people doing different things working in different ways. And how business is actually splitting out to be a separate company from our pharma business soon. And I think we're, we're quite ready for that now, because of a lot of change we've driven but we are going into a new wave of that now with some exciting things ahead. So lots lots of change that come but that's how we've driven you know, a decade's change in the last two or so years.
Tom Ollerton 31:40
So if you're gonna do all again, what would you do differently?
Jerry Daykin 31:45
Ah I'm exhausted, Tom, I wouldn't do all over again. And how to deal with it. I know without without saying it's been flawless. A lot of it has gone really well. And that's not only down to me, it's down to a great team. I have a great agency we have great alignment we've had from from from senior management. For me, I'm always hungry for change and hungry to drive event, if anything is not how would I do again, differently? It's, you know, what, what else do we need to change? Where else do we need to change? Who else needs to change? You know, I get I get hungry for that, rather than looking back and saying, oh, it didn't it didn't work. But the key things are about bringing people, the people is that the heart of it, I think I arrived. The Bold ambitions. Some of what we were doing at Diageo, I think at the time was more advanced than what we're doing GSK I think much less so now. And I came with like this, this toolkit of like, like, I'm here, I can transform and change. You guys watch this space. And you realize, you know, it's not it's not the people in the business don't know what to do differently or haven't suggested things. It's not that the local agency hasn't proposed more radical things. It's that there are barriers and people and and you've got to bring those along with you drive capability. And I think I did do that. But yeah, I couldn't you know, you there's more you could do in that space. And I think you know, how you engage with people and really bring them along for that journey is the biggest part of any kind of transformation. And I didn't, I didn't really talk about the fact we've also introduced lots of new tech and back end stuff and you know, made some big decisions about platforms and things. That's all critical. I guess it's kind of our partners, but it's so it gets hyped up to me The main thing when actually the people, and the thinking and the strategy and how you how you're why you're going to do this is so so critical.
Tom Ollerton 33:33
So we are at the end of the podcast, I'm very sad to say. How do you want people to get in touch with you, if they are interested in finding out more about your six P's of digital transformation.
Jerry Daykin 33:46
They can they can talk about anything else they like as well. I'm on I'm on LinkedIn, do add me or follow me there. And I'm pretty active on Twitter all hours of the day. So love getting stuck into a good discussion debate there at j daikon, if you want to come find me.
Tom Ollerton 34:01
Fantastic. Jerry, thank you so much.
Jerry Daykin 34:03
Speak soon.
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