Episode 133 / Jim Mollica / Bose Corporation / Chief Marketing Officer
The Renaissance of Audio and Why Brands Should Do More Immersive Marketing
Jim Mollica is the Chief Marketing Officer at Bose Corporation, having developed a career in brand marketing that spans amazing roles at The Disney Corporation, Viacom, Under Armour and more. His Shiny New Object is the renaissance of audio – from smart speakers and using music in various listening occasions to the rise of the podcast and original content creation.
One of Jim’s top marketing tips came from the former president of Nickelodeon and Viacom Media Networks, Cyma Zargami, who told him that “strategy only matters if the creative execution is great.” Because so much time can be spent on a strategy that doesn’t then connect with the customer, it’s essential that creative serves the business aims.
This is why Jim’s focusing on immersive advertising and looking at influencing people’s buying decisions way before they enter the market. His Shiny New Object is the renaissance of audio, from using listening occasions throughout everyday life up to creating content for podcasts and other means of producing music.
As a self-confessed “music geek,” Jim sees music fulfilling many different functions, like enhancing special occasions, elevating a moment, providing a productive working background for professionals or creating hype for a sports team before a game. Moreover, we’re now consuming music and audio content in general through soundscapes to help us meditate and be more mindful, or sound sanctuaries to keep the noise out.
Using audio is having a renaissance as well, through smart speakers all the way through to the rise of the podcast and original content in that sphere. This is where Bose are focusing on creating immersive audio content which ultimately fosters a consumer response to the brand, influencing their purchasing decisions. It’s difficult to see the specific ROI of creating content with long-term influencing outcomes in mind, but “if you don’t tell these stories, other brands will.” This is a great opportunity for brands as publishers.
To find out more about Jim’s career twists and turns, his top marketing tips and his views on making ads vs making content, listen to the podcast.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Tom Ollerton 0:18
Hello, and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative. And this is a podcast about the future of marketing. Every week or so I have the pleasure and the privilege of interviewing one of our leaders, and this week is no different. I'm very excited to be on a call with Jim Mollica, who's Chief Marketing Officer at Bose Corporation. Jim was a guest on Advertisers Watching Ads. And I'm very proud to say he's one of our clients as well, so slightly nervous about that. But Jim, for those in the audience who don't know who you are, and what you do, could you give them a bit of an overview?
Jim Mollica 1:45
Yeah, sure. So first, thrilled to be here, Tom, thanks for having me. I'm Jim Mollica. I head up marketing for Bose. And, you know, my background has been for the past 25 years brand marketing. And I've worked for companies like Nissan, Ralph Lauren, Under Armour, Viacom, Disney. I have been incredibly lucky to work for some super talented people with some super talented teammates and, and really interesting projects.
Tom Ollerton 2:19
Well, man, that is an enviable list of people to work for. So I've got a very high expectation of your performance on this podcast now. So
Jim Mollica 2:27
If I say, oh, I'll come underneath that bar. But way to put the pressure on, Tom.
Tom Ollerton 2:32
Well, let's start off well below that bar, right, let's talk about a fuckup. Let's talk about that moment in your career where you just went completely red faced, and thought, Oh, my God, you wanted the world to swallow you up. But it's made you the marketer you are today. Tell me tell me that story?
Jim Mollica 2:51
Well, alright, look, first of all, you can my fuck ups are, are it's it's a litany that you could pick on a weekly basis. So that's, that's the first thing I'd say, you know, I'm going to give you one quick one that started off my career. And then you tell me if if you want another one, but when, when I was getting out of undergraduate, I felt a tremendous sense of pressure to to achieve some level of success. My father was the first that had gone to college from his family and had me when he was young, and you had eventually become very, very successful attorney. And I felt this like incredible need to, to somehow follow on this path because the family thought, Well, you know, you're Jim's son, and you're, you're going to follow on that same kind of trajectory and path and so I ultimately didn't know what I was going to do. So I was pretty good in school and pretty good at standardized tests. So So I went to law school. I, you know, went through, took the LSAT, did pretty well got in, went there for the first day and I was sitting there in orientation. And I heard the Dean of the School talk about you know, the the commitment to law and what we were going to have to do as far as putting forth the effort in studies and and how important it is and the function it serves. And I was looking around the room thinking, I don't know if I want to do this work because my prior college roommate was in law school and did an internship in Jersey City and was researching carpet fibers for an entire summer. And I kept hearing carpet fibers that go in one ear, and in the other in the other. And I had been reading this history of ... It was a biography of Winston Churchill. He talked about how successful his father was. And you know what a complete fuckup he was. And I'm thinking, I'm thinking, well, Churchill took a completely different path in, you know, he was a late bloomer. And so I have Churchill on my other on my other shoulder telling me, what are you doing here, like, follow your own path, you're more creative, you need to go. And I walked out of that I walked out of that room, that that massive auditorium, I got back in my car, and I had moved home, to save some money to go to school, and I drove home, sat down at dinner that night. And announced to my family that I was dropping out of law school. And it was met with the mouths agape. And needless to say, that was a Friday and I moved moved out of the house on Monday. Went on to business school and never looked back.
Tom Ollerton 5:56
Right, I'm, I'm racking my brain for the previous guests that had on it that told almost exactly the same story there was sat there in that same lecture, and I don't want to do this. I really didn't want to do this. But it must have only been there's two people on this podcast, which is there's a lot of people I guess, but it's actually quite a small subset of the population. How many people have that same feeling, but don't do anything about it? How many people are attorneys or whatever, like researching carpet fiber in 50 years, hence? I wonder. So So come on, let's squeeze in another screw up. What What else have you look?
Jim Mollica 6:31
Okay, this was this was a, this was a screw up, where I was when Twitter was was first sort of on the scene, and I was responsible for what they called, what they called new media back then. And, you know, basically, across Disney, I was one of the people helping to engineer your new skill sets and learning how to use new platforms for the company. And so we decided to do a pretty creative, interesting move. You know, the team said, Well, what if we took to Twitter rather than the micro blog that it was at the time? Could we take a page out of Disney parks, which has those moments where a character comes up, and there's this, you know, kind of freeform play that sort of comes out with the characters, and you know, the guests that are in the park, usually kids are involved? And we thought, Well, what if we, what if we took that to this environment, like Twitter, and this was before Twitter was what Twitter was? And so we said, well, we could create the characters in Twitter to engage with people around, you know, Disney topics, and have fun and play out these little momentary scenes, or vignettes in their lives. And you'll give them a moment of joy. And so, you know, worked really hard. Disney has such strict standards around around the characters and what they can and can't do. And I spent months convincing people that Donald Duck actually would use a technology platform like Twitter, and all of these crazy, you know, theoretical discussions about the Fab Five with you know, Donald and Mickey and Minnie and Goofy, and Pluto and including them in this. And so we we took months to create a story scape, we're going to pop up these characters on Twitter and start engaging with fans. And then, and then I woke up one night and thought, oh my god, what am I doing, that I'm taking the crown jewels of this organization, and exposing them to a platform that I'm not quite sure what's going to happen here. So we were probably two weeks out and we rewrote the entire scripts, where I wanted to have a way that we could end it, you know, very gracefully if we needed to, and wouldn't put the company as much risk with you know, going down the infamy of you know, like the new coke with you know, Jim just put Mickey out there and you know, he got into a trolling match with you know, an NFL player. So we ended up pivoting we brought the yo five terrible villains from from the Disney crew lined him up in October, used the month of October to build a strategy, a takeover of Disney Land, to draw people in there for the epic, you know, Mickey's not so scary Halloween, and then it could all go away because they wouldn't just they couldn't decide who was going to be the actual leader of the troop. So we launched with that and had an incredible you know, incredible time, but the most in a panic there came when I had all of these goth young women, pledging their allegiance to Cruella de Vil online. And feeling like oh my God, I've managed to get myself into this territory. Again, it ended before things got to go off the rails. But what it did do is it led to, it led to a partnership with Cruella de Vil and Mac Cosmetics a couple of years later, so all's well that ends well.
Tom Ollerton 10:30
So what new belief or behavior Have you taken on in the last five years or so that's had an impact on your work life,
Jim Mollica 10:38
I think early in your career that you're, you know, you're you're sort of rewarded and you believe are trained to believe that, you know, you appear confident and have all the answers, especially as a leader. But when you, when you look back on it, it's the mistakes that you learn the most from. And those mistakes become really valuable in your storytelling and your relatability. And so, what what I become comfortable with, you know, more and more comfortable over the years, is, is, you know, emitting all of my vulnerabilities, and there are many. And I think, I think when when you show yourself as human, when you talk about, you know, the mistakes that you've made, the, you know, fears or concerns that you have over things, I think it lets people breathe, and they feel safe, to actually do more challenging, risky work. Because it doesn't, it doesn't feel like that you're holding people to superhuman standards or unrealistic outputs. And that you'll you understand and provide, you know, the necessary areas of exploration and safety for them. And I think you have to feel safe, right, in order to do anything, well, whether it's a relationship, whether it's leading a team, whether it's creating incredible work, you got to feel safe. And the only way? Well, I think one of the ways that you can accomplish that is being supportive, and being vulnerable with with the people around you.
Tom Ollerton 12:38
So how would you suggest someone did that? Who thinks that sounds incredibly uncomfortable? And unlike them, how'd you get started in leading with vulnerability?
Jim Mollica 12:50
Well, I mean, I think it's a little bit, it's a little bit of a risk for you, right? Like, just like anything else. You know, when you're, you know, when you're out there, and you ask somebody out, or when you put your name of the hat and go in for a job interview, that there's a tryout for a team, that there's a risk involved with not being successful. But you know, the, the rewards of what those things can give you are so huge, that, you know, I would I would encourage people to take to take the small steps, then find, find somebody that you feel like that you can connect with and trust and relate to a bit and, and perhaps, you know, you start small, with with the vulnerabilities that you show, and you see how people respond and react to you. And I think what you'll find is that when you start small, you'll start to see some positive impact, and just a deeper, more meaningful relationship with with that person, or the work that needs to get done, and they're so interconnected. And I think that starts to encourage you to keep to keep stepping out. You know, obviously there there are areas in some people that you know, that you feel more comfortable sharing more than than than others. But I think as a general practice, you know, people that are that have great sense of self and self confidence, are the ones that aren't afraid or trying to hide their vulnerabilities. And so the other thing I'd say is that, you know, people typically know it too, because your behaviors give it away if if you're pretending that you know you're you have all the answers or that you know, there are no vulnerabilities to you.
Tom Ollerton 14:49
So, in your career, what has been the best bit of marketing advice or your top tip or your your golden nugget of marketing wisdom that you Heard, right at the start, or during Disney or in recent times?
Jim Mollica 15:04
I've been lucky because I've worked for some really amazing people, I really have. And I've gotten to work very closely with some founders of some incredible companies. I've gotten to work with some, you know, really strong, transformational leaders, and visionary leaders. So So I've had a lot and and I can't say, I can't say you know that there's only one, but the one that's particularly important to me right now, because of the work that I'm doing with Bose coming in there, and really working on on, you know, our our overall marketing approach is my former CEO, at Viacom at Nickelodeon, the kids and family division, Cyma Zarghami, who had been there a very long time and grew up in the programming and creative side of things. She would debate me back and forth, when I would show up with a strategy articulation of what we were doing, or how we're pivoting or what we were, what we were trying to accomplish within, you know, various campaigns. And she, at one point, told me when I had a really ticked and tight, extremely thoughtful strategy around the future of TV, and it was a really compelling thing, looking back on it now 10 years ago. But she stopped me at one point, and I was so wrapped up in the strategy that she said, you know, strategy only matters if the creative execution is great. And, and I think sometimes for somebody like me, that is, you know, really born in strategy. And I have creative ideas, but I am not a creative in the traditional sense. It's so true, like a poorly translated strategy, just as so bad. It just doesn't doesn't accomplish your business goals. Whereas if you have a marginal strategy, that just helps focus it a bit, and lightning in a bottle with a creative, look out. And it's, it's really true, and I think that you know, I I've continued to try to focus on that in the year since, but it's, it's particularly important. I think, now when people are vying to earn people's engagement in in storytelling, it's it's more important than ever.
Tom Ollerton 18:01
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So we're at the halfway stage now. And we're going to talk about your shiny new object, which is the renaissance of audio. Can you tell us why this is your shiny new object and why you think it represents the future of what we got to look forward to in the industry?
Jim Mollica 18:57
Yeah, I'd love to Tom. Um, so first, let me let me admit that I am a massive music geek like I am one of those pretentious music record collectors, I'm, you know, I'm I'm off and mark the passages of moments of my life what what record I bought at the time I was listening to so it's, it starts from that foundation. But there's just this interesting thing that I had been noticing with, you know, the rise of all of these different listening occasions, right, there's those there's, of course, you know, people listening, listening to music, but music is serving different functions in those listening occasions like, you know, helping an athlete train and push through boundaries that maybe they never thought they could get to, or or, you know, a team getting you excited and hyped before you know, they break through that tunnel for a game, or, you know, an entrepreneur, really focusing in on the work that they have, as they're working on a pitch to raise money or a chef as they're creating in the kitchen, to help continue to inspire and focus them or, you know, having get together, when we have get togethers, again, you know, using music to enhance that occasion, that elevate that moment that like, that's all just music and then you start to think about, you know, the different types of listening occasions around, you know, sound sanctuaries and cities and in cars, and how they keep the unwanted noise or bad noise out and create calm elements of it, thinking about sound scapes to help people meditate. And, and be mindful in working on that, the way that smart homes are using sound to control environments in the mood. And based on weather, and the patterns in your house or the people in your house in that moment that enhances enhances mood, sleep, and helping people with fall asleep faster and deeper, or they show soundscapes or creating, you know, to be as effective as as prescription drugs, you know, all the way into smart speakers answering questions for you, or, or providing, you know, ecommerce outcomes. And, you know, taking that taking that appeal all the way through to podcasts, and the rise of podcasts and the creativity that's moving from, you know, sort of traditional radio into, like deep storytelling that started by, you know, podcasts like This American Life, you know, into the immersion of 3d audio, and what that can do for for gaming and call it theatrical audio.
Tom Ollerton 22:05
So what is the marketing opportunity here? That wasn't there before?
Jim Mollica 22:10
Yeah, I think I think it's gonna be obviously different for different brands, I think if you're, if you're a brand that has, you know, endemic association, to sound, the opportunities are endless, you know, I think it can provide you a path towards innovation and having a greater impact on people's lives for all of the all of the innovative products, both digital and physical, that you can apply to people's lives. So the canvas, the canvases, or the mediums I shouldn't even say canvases, the mediums start to change for you, and allow you to create all these new and interesting ways which open up massive opportunities for developers and engineers to create. And with that, you become more of a partner in creation than a sponsor of programming. And I think that, you know, immersing yourselves in the environments to enhance them is a massive opportunity within these within these audio worlds, like I think about, you know, companies that went into early sports, video games, and the advertising within the video games actually enhanced the game playing because it made it feel more real, it made it feel more lifelike. I think that the elements of what you can enhance around these, these new audio occasions, can be really immersive, and very deep in a different way than sort of the standard interruptive read.
Tom Ollerton 23:56
And who do you think is taking advantage of it? Which brands do you look to and think, Oh, yeah, they've they've nailed podcasting, or they've like, nailed in game music? Or who? Who do you look up to here? Who should the industry be taking notes from?
Jim Mollica 24:13
I don't know. I mean, that's, that's the super compelling thing, right? That's what makes it, you know, maybe shiny or, and therefore, you know, have a higher beta or more risky than other things is I don't think anybody has because I think there are elements of people that are doing interesting things and, you know, figuring out how to target and arbitrage The, the costs associated with the platforms because it's so new, but I don't think anybody's doing it across the board exceptionally well. I think the mediums have to evolve more. And and they need greater accountability like to some of the targeting aspect and the the The metrics and the KPIs that show not necessarily return on investment to direct sales, but return on objective. And being able to measure those things has been hard historically. And I think that's why it's, it's it's people have people have gone in less than full force. But I think, you know, you see, you see some companies doing some interesting things with programming around it. Like, when I was at Under Armour, we had formed a partnership with iheart radio not to advertise only within their podcast universe, but actually create content around around, you know, athletic performance and achievement. A company that I'm on the board of a company called squad locker, that fulfills your custom uniforms, and, you know, for athletics, does a great podcast where they're inviting, you know, famous athletes and people around the sports world around, you know, the role that sport is played in them. And using that is, is is content around areas where they have authority, and I think that really helps brands, in the long term, develop a really strong connection on their mission and their purpose. And, you know, ultimately, then then puts them in the place to satisfy those kinds of needs for their end. And consumers.
Tom Ollerton 26:27
Do you think there is an uncomfortability between making an ad and making content? So, for example, you and I both know how much effort goes into making a banner ad, right? It's a fairly simple format. But how many people do you need to sign that off? The strategist, the creative, the designer, the writer there? Yeah, like it's a lot of people to produce a very small thing. And not saying it's politically difficult, but it takes time. But then making original content like a podcast, you know, you're, it's huge. And is there a problem for brands that they're fundamentally most of them still not publishers, I mean, you've got like publishing giants, like Red Bull, for example. And you've got people who sort of dip their toe in the water. And he did a podcast a little while ago, and occasionally on a podcast adverts you hear brought to you by whatever, like MailChimp, for example, you know, they have a whole set of originals now. So, so ironically, maybe funded by the growth that cereal delivered them. But anyway, that slightly different point, like how, how can brands realistically jump from just delivering the basics of digital advertising to producing shows, which is completely different thing?
Jim Mollica 27:46
Yeah, it is a completely different thing. And I think it's incredibly hard for brands to make that pivot it because they're used to controlling a very specific interruptive format. And, and I think an industry was built on command and control kind of communications. And that led the agencies to stockpile multiple rounds of approvals and brands to stockpile multiple rounds of approvals with slows everything down. Going back to that vulnerability and trust, I'm pushing in a fan of more faster, that feels more authentic. And it's sort of nature of storytelling and get it out there. And if it doesn't work, so what, tomorrow's another day and here comes 10 more, but that's not typically the way that the the function had run from, you know, some of the CPG giants that were very much in sort of a central brand management function, I think I'm probably a little more comfortable with the brand as publisher component, because of my background of both Disney and Viacom, where, you know, that's what they were doing, and they evolve their business into, you know, doing it with video games are doing it with consumer products are doing it with, you know, online experiences and virtual worlds. And, you know, I think one of the goals that I had in my time and Under Armour was how do we tell more stories that that were really, you know, important to the people that we wanted to influence and associate with our product. So, you know, when we launched the Steph Curry shoe, we were very, very focused on you know, creating content on YouTube and, you know, you know, sneaker, sneaker junkie that was, you know, roaming the country interviewing sneaker artists and collaborators, and eo local playground like Engines around the sport, while you know, they were wearing curries and talking. And I think you know, it's very hard for brands to see the specific ROI back to it. But in this world, if you don't tell those stories, right, you know, somebody else will. And not even your competitors, but just other content that's out there, they're occupied people's time. And that's not to say that you don't still need the banner ad or other forms of advertising you do. But I find that like the interruptive ad is really helpful when somebody is specifically in that purchase decision journey. But our job is to influence all the shit that comes before that. Right. And I want you thinking about Bose. And you'll artisinal audio premium audio, the audio around our company way before you enter the market.
Tom Ollerton 30:55
Jim, unfortunately, we're gonna have to leave it there. What a brilliant finished, excellent conversation. If someone wants to talk to you about this renaissance of audio? How would you want them to do that?
Jim Mollica 31:09
LinkedIn is the best method. I mean, you can hit me on Twitter as well. But you know, I always appreciate a good LinkedIn email. That's the best way to get me.
Tom Ollerton 31:19
Brilliant. Jim, thanks so much for your time.
Jim Mollica 31:21
Thank you, Tom. Appreciate the time.
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