Episode 255 / Leandro Chique / Philips / Marketing Director - Strategic Adjacencies
Using Data to Drive Healthy Behaviour Change through Consumer Engagement
Leandro Chique started his career in strategy roles before moving into marketing and specialising in the healthcare sector. This has allowed him to see a long-term benefit of the development of data driven marketing, bringing together healthcare and consumer data to improve people’s wellbeing.
Using Consumer Data to Drive Healthcare Behaviour Change
Leandro thinks that helping people engage with their healthcare and driving behaviour change will help improve health all over the world. This is why he’s passionate about uniting healthcare and consumer data to see how healthcare companies can better target consumers and influence positive changes in their lives. This approach faces hurdles around privacy and consent, but it holds immense potential to use data driven marketing as a force for good.
The Importance of a Career Plan
Asked to share his biggest professional mistake, Leandro thinks back on taking a job solely for the money. Yes, we work for money and need to have appropriate rewards, but this is a way to get “stuck” in a “golden cage” where you will ultimately not do your best work.
Instead, marketers should plan their career, considering next steps and how they all fit logically in what they’re passionate about doing.
Consumer Centricity & Communication
Understanding data well and being comfortable communicating it in a clear and concise way are key skills for marketers. You need to spend time understanding the consumer, with descriptive analytics and data points, in order to be able to design the best marketing strategy. Additionally, being very clear about the consumer data and how it helps drive value will make it easier for marketers to negotiate internally in their organisations and get the outcomes they’re hoping for.
Get more data driven marketing tips from Leandro in the full podcast episode.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Leandro Chique 0:00
I see that we make a lot of mistakes in the industry. We minimize and downplay the importance of data. We'll make sure that you spend a lot of time on understanding who that consumer is.
Tom Ollerton 0:11
Hello, and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of the creative effectiveness, ad tech platform automated creative and this is a regular podcast where I get to interview exciting people from our industry about the future of data driven marketing. I'm sat here in Diageo HQ in London in their beautiful new office and I want to call with Leandro Chique. Leandro, i hope I did a good job of your name there. But I tried. Leandro is a marketing director at Philips. So Leandro for anyone who doesn't know who you are and what you do, can you give us some background?
Leandro Chique 0:55
Yeah, so Tom, first of all, thanks for having me in the podcast. Like you said, you said my name is Leandro Chique, that's a very good pronunciation. So thanks for that. I'm originally from Venezuela. Born and raised, I worked seven years in Procter and Gamble in multiple roles there. Then I went to the US to do my MBA, and join Henry Schein doing a strategy that's Henry Schein is the biggest distributor for animal health, dental and medical in the world. I was doing strategy at Henry Schein for about three years, one year in New York, two years in London. And then five years ago, I moved to Philips, where I started my role in strategy in the personal health cluster, and today, I'm doing marketing in the healthcare business.
Tom Ollerton 1:49
Well, that is quite a career and in different businesses and sectors and locations. So I'm curious to know, what was the biggest mistake the weighed in that career where you were red faced, you were embarrassed you were facepalming like crazy, what was that awful mistake that you made. In retrospect, you're glad that you made that mistake?
Speaker 1 2:09
I think the biggest mistake that I made in my life, it was just to take a job because of the money. So not having a plan was something that I paid dearly. And that's something that I advise a lot of friends and colleagues that come to me sometimes for advice, do not take a job only because of the money that could bring to the table. I know money is very important. And we all work because we need and want money. But also make sure that you have a plan, make sure that you have a vision on why you're taking that role. What is it that you want to get out of it? What is next after that role? I think that's that's super important, especially for the younger you are, the more that first job that you take is going to define who you are in the future. And that's a mistake that I made very early in my career. It took me multiple years to get out of that situation. So it is very important. Don't Don't Don't get into that golden cage or golden handcuffs that exists out there.
Tom Ollerton 3:24
So what advice would you have for people who got inside the golden cage or the golden handcuffs? How'd you get out of it quick?
Leandro Chique 3:33
So I think then when you get into that situation people is going to or senior managers or middle managers that you are you're going to have to be doing interviews with you really need to communicate, why is it that you want to do a career change? Or what do you want to have? Switch companies or switching industries, it really depends on what kind of case you are in. Right? And you need to have that story, right? By the time that you are going to have that conversation. I think that's something in my opinion, that is is it can be difficult, if you get into the wrong industry or the wrong function or the wrong company is going to be very difficult to have that storyline in a very clear and, and and and easy to communicate way. Right. So So my advice is that if you are really in these kind of situations, take time back relax, really think through where is it that you want to take your career. What is it that you want to do with your life? A what sort of industry you want to be in what sort of function you want to be in, what type of company you want to be in because a corporated and a start-up are very different and that will help you to nail that On that storyline in a very clear way. So you can communicate that, as you go through that process of of, of stepping out of that situation that you got into. Yeah. And then if you need to take a pay cut, because you already made that decision because of money, so money clearly is important for you, if you need to take a pay cut, see it as temporary, do the life adjustments that you need to make a but I think, for careers, you are here for the long term, you are not real, you don't get into a career for the short term. So get that story, right be willing to do sacrifices to made up for that mistake, a and things will get back on track.
Tom Ollerton 5:41
So that's excellent career advice, and thanks for sharing it. But what I want to get to now is what is your advice for data driven marketing? What is that killer bit of advice that you find yourself sharing most often that you always rely on?
Leandro Chique 5:59
To me? So data driven marketing, the most important piece and I see people forget it quite a lot, is always be consumer, or patient? Or customer centric? Right? It really depends on the industry. Where you are, we'll make sure that you spend a lot of time on understanding who that consumer is, and not understanding from the psychological point of view. But understand who is this person? Like? Use descriptive analytics to define who that person is? Or? Or who that basis is, if you are in b2b? Or if you are in healthcare? Who is this patient? What are really there problems from the data point of view? A and spend a lot of time on that one, I think people generally speaking, don't spend enough time looking and understanding from the data analytics or, or data, how to describe that customer how to describe that consumer how to describe that patient using numbers. I think that's very important. I think that's the first one and make sure that you spend also time really understanding what is the problem that you are trying to solve for. And make sure that you articulate it with numbers, with data. Because that not only helps you to do a better job as a marketeer. But it will also help you to communicate within your company. When you go to r&d Or when you go to engineering. When you go to finance, you need to be able to communicate in a very succinct and concrete way, how you are creating plans, or communications or products to solve this problem for your customers, whatever that customer is. And I see, to me, it sounds obvious, but to be honest, I see that we make a lot of mistakes in the industry. In this regard. We minimize and downplay the importance of data, we minimize and downplay the importance of being concrete on the problems that you're trying to solve. And then I would also say, after you get that nailed down, start figuring out where all the data points are around that consumer or patient that could be relevant for the type of job to be done that you want to do. I think that will be my biggest advice for new people get into the into data driven marketing, right?
Tom Ollerton 5:59
Okay. So imagine I've joined your team, and we're launching a new product and I say Leandro, I have a really good understanding of the consumer, the pain point that we're solving, I've got data and then you check my homework. How do you know when I've done a good enough job? How do you know when you've got enough data? How do you know when you've done enough digging? Because there's a lot of data points out there. There's a ton of quality you could do, obviously loads of quantity with ones and zeros. But do you have a process or a framework for understanding when you've done enough investigation into the target audience?
Leandro Chique 9:29
To me, the way I approach this, I'm very pragmatic Tom. I like pragmatism because I think that if you're using data to describe that, that consumer that patient or that customer and you've overcomplicated things then you get you're gonna get lost in data like you say like there is a lot of data out there. And there are tools these days like for example AI. There are More and more tools that you can leverage to get in depth understanding of whatever your customer is. Yeah. But what what I look from the people in my team is that, that they can in one sentence or two sentences. With data points Tell me, what is the job to be done? And what are the problems that we're trying to solve for, for this costumer? Yeah. That to me is paramount. So if you get that one or two sentences right, after you did all the research, after you look at all the problems, and you can communicate, what is it that we're doing for them, then other opportunities are gonna arise, a and then all those other opportunities might need, you know, additional research and additional data points that you need to look into a bullet. From the pragmatic point of view, I feel that my team is ready when they know our reason to exist, and they are able to communicate it in a very concrete way using data points.
Tom Ollerton 11:09
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So now we're gonna move on and see your shiny new object, which is using data to scale and drive consumer or patient engagement to drive behavior change. So that sounds quite self evident what that is. But can you tell us a little bit more detail why that's your shiny new object?
Leandro Chique 12:06
Yeah. So this all came because of work that I did, actually, when I was in strategy. Specifically for patients. We did a lot of research with post acute cardiac patients. So these are patients that have acute cardiac events. So for example, heart attack, right? We have a lot of data, about these patients, and these all these data is siloed. In electronic medical records in hospitals, most of the people do they have wearables, like you name it a Fitbit or an Apple Watch. You also have a phone that has a lot of rich data on what is it that you're looking online? What is it that? What sort of apps are you using in your phone, all that tells a lot about that person. Now, a few years ago, we didn't have enough technology in order to get a hold of all that data, read all that data make sense of all that data. And these days with AI I see more and more proof, and evidence that you can pull all that data and use it to improve the engagement of a patient a, and help them to drive behavior change. Yeah. And I wanted to be externally reviewed on this. And the importance of this, the reason why it gets me excited is that healthcare costs for all sorts of society. No matter where you live, no matter where you are, is a huge burden. Huge, we're talking maybe in the trillions, at least hundreds of billions of dollars on inefficiencies in healthcare. And helping people to get engage with their healthcare and drive that behavior change is going to help us to improve life across the world. And that the perspective that we are on the verge or very close to get into this direction, it gets me super excited. And that's something that I really look forward for the next few years. That that is gonna get there, we're gonna get there with the help of generative AI and so many other tools, breaking silos between healthcare data and consumer data. A, all these movement that is happening around us is gonna really drive it. I love it and and you call it you know, a shiny new object. I would like more and more people to help push into that direction, because we can have a huge impact in humanity as a whole.
Tom Ollerton 15:03
So what is the behavior change that you want to see from a consumer or patient perspective?
Leandro Chique 15:08
Okay, so let me use a very concrete example that I would like to see. So people that have acute cardiac events, heart attack. So these people, they had a certain lifestyle, right. So these people are, I don't know, I want to pick a random one not to pick on anyone, but you have, for example, bad eating habits that made you obese. And you were okay with that you grew up with that you have been, I don't know, 30 years eating a bad diet. And that led you to a very hard and acute event, you were close to that. That patient, let's call it a patient after the acute event, that patient change. So it's not the same person is not the same consumer, that you were before you had that acute event. Yeah. And the behavioral change that I want to see is that how, with all the data points that we have, from this patient, how we can provide them with an experience and engagement experience, keep them engage, to improve and change their lifestyle. Yeah. And we can do it today. Look, we do it in tech, we do it in Instagram, this app are designed to keep you engaged and looking into this social networks, there is nothing wrong with it. But the technology is there to help patients to change behavior, these, these companies have been able to get us hooked up hours in it, and they do generate ad revenue, there is no reason why we shouldn't be using similar or even augmented technology in the same round, to drive a healthy be healthier behavior for this, people that went through a very acute event, now they want to change their lives, but it's not easy for them. So some of these people that use you know, they work very long hours. So they work very tough jobs that are highly demanded, a we can measure that we can we can see that they get home, you know very tired 8pm After a long day of very hard work. A and we should be able to influence them, and get them to a different stage, how we can have them to improve the diet, to the example that I use them before, how we can help them to do some kind of exercise, like some exercise is better than nothing. And that's something that we're not doing today. And I feel that that the future the near future for for us as humans is going to go into that direction is going to go from just doing diagnosis and treatment in hospitals, to engage with patients after acute events at home, and help change their lives for better. And we all going to benefit from this. Because what this means, ultimately, is that healthcare costs are going to go down. Because the risk of readmission is going to be less. And it's super exciting, really, to me is not an exciting and but also moving because when you do interviews with these patients, they know they want help, they know they need help. We're just not doing what we need to do for them.
Tom Ollerton 18:37
So what is data driven marketing's role in this change that you want to see?
Leandro Chique 18:42
So we need to find ways to like I said at the beginning, go very deep on understanding these patients. All consumers make sure that then we think about value propositions, that with the data availability that we have, we need to make sure that we incorporate all the data points that are around the consumer or the patient. And this is something that we're not doing a very good job. Still, everybody has a marketer, right? So I see that is twofold. First is to spend more time with those niche consumer and patients that are desperately seeking for help. That specialization with these consumers and patient I think that's something that we can do a better job understanding those. It is not only about the big I don't know Gen Z, for example, everybody's talking about Gen Z, there is a lot of companies are gonna focus on this. I think we can do a better job to understand the consumers and the patients in those niche segments. And we are not doing a good job with that yet. I see some, some some pockets of expertise on that. But we haven't done that very well. And then the second piece is that when we think about value propositions, how do we create new value propositions for patients and consumers? We need to think about this from a different angle, right? A right now is not only about approval is not only about our service, a, and I think the AI push is going to help us to go into that direction is what are the use cases where we can use data that is being generated by the consumer, or the patient, to improve that engagement, to have a positive impact in people's lives. And, and, and like I said, I think that's something that we're not doing a very good job yet. But I feel that that very soon, in the next five years, we're gonna see dramatic improvement on on how we marketers interact with, with patient or consumer data, or I will say patient and consumer generated data.
Tom Ollerton 21:26
So I like this idea. It's exciting to hear you talk about it with such passion. And we talk about the next five years. So help me, visualize what that might look like. I'm not asking you to solve the problem, technically, but what might it look like this time next year? What might it look like? In two years time you talk about consumer generated? They? Are you talking about advertising data? Are you seeing a place where we open up our our Fitbit and our Apple watches and information about our diet to advertisers? Or obviously there's GDPR and privacy. So I'm excited about your vision, but there are some clear hurdles. So without wanting to come up with a solution, assuming we can get around those things. What does the future look like? Are we going to see bespoke products advertised to people based on how many steps they've taken? Or what they claim their diet is? Or help me understand the future that you've seen?
Leandro Chique 22:20
Yeah. So this is the way I see it. Right. So I see, let's pick, again, an acute event, because I think that's the most dramatic change that you were a consumer, you had an acute event, and now you're a completely different person. Yeah. So you're not anymore. A healthy person, let's pick that one. Because that's, that's very concrete. So I think what's going to happen in the future is that a, you as you want to change, you're going to have to give consent for marketeers to get access to your health condition. And then what's going to happen is that as soon as you walk out of that hospital, you will get consent for us to get access to that data, maybe not to every company, but some companies will get access to that one, that data. And with that, we're gonna be able to communicate with you in a way that is much more relevant to you in a way that is just in time with you. And in a way that will keep you engaged with that behavior, change that that we need to do. And like it, let's make it even even more concrete. Right. So today, you have a heart attack, you get sent home, the first 30 days the hospital is looking for you. Usually that's true in in Europe and the USA, after 30 days, or after 90 days, depending on the situation. You are completely on your own. Yeah. So you are technically not a patient anymore, because they're not taking care of you anymore. But then you are not the same person. There is no reason why we shouldn't be talking to you with products and services that are going to help you get that life improvement that we all will benefit from. Yeah, and yes, we need to get hurdles not only on the GDPR or HIPAA in the US. Yes, we have a big companies like epic, that is the biggest electronic medical record company in the world. That they have siloed data that is very relevant to help to tailor that communication to the patient or the x patient. After that. We really need to break those silos, but the benefit is for all I don't see a reason why People shouldn't be opening up obviously, with the proper consent from the patient, or the expectation that those data points to everybody else. As long as they're using it use in the right way. Yeah. And I think that that's where companies will differentiate. Let me let let's pick an example. So for example, I see Google, Google Health, Google is trying to make an effort to go into the health sector. But they most of the revenue comes from advertisement. So I find that super difficult to buy in also, for patients to give the data to Google. So I'll see players that are much more responsible, maybe some of these beds don't even exist today. There might be startups that are coming in, that will make sure that they curate that communication they want they talk to you the way that they communicate to you the products and services that they offer to you are more specific to drive that behavior change. Yeah. And that's, that's the way I see in the future in the in the very near future. So you won't be bombarded with all type of crap that you are disabled by it. But it's going to be much more to that experience for for some you,
Tom Ollerton 26:27
Leandro. I'm sorry, but we have to end it there. I could happily talk more about your vision for a very long time. And thank you for sharing it with us. So if someone wants to get in touch with you about this topic or anything else, where is the best place to reach out to you and what makes a message that you will actually reply to.
Leandro Chique 26:44
So if you want to reach out to me, I think the best and fastest way is through LinkedIn. You can find my LinkedIn profile, Leandro Chique. And you send me a message, I'm happy to do networking and happy to spar on my areas, too. I don't have a crystal ball. And I also usually have very interesting conversations with multiple people in the space. So feel free to reach out anytime. And we'll engage.
Tom Ollerton 27:13
Leandro, thank you so much for your time.
Leandro Chique 27:15
Thank you for having me, Tom.
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