Episode 290 / Frederique Bazin / SimpliSafe / Head of Retail Marketing
How Curiosity Kills Bland Marketing
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For Frederique Bazin, curiosity may not be a “shiny new” thing in marketing, but it’s certainly become easily overlooked or taken for granted. The Head of Retail Marketing at SimpliSafe talked to us about why a curiosity mindset helps us be better data driven marketers, how she leverages relationship building to grow her career, and the importance of integrating all sources of data.
Frederique believes that asking the right questions and always seeking to go beyond the obvious data or reports are non negotiable traits of a successful marketer. Especially in a world of increased use of generative AI, where it’s becoming harder to set yourself apart with your creative output, embracing a curiosity mindset means you’re not letting yourself become one of the masses.
As Frederique puts it, “to be better, you have to be different. To be different, you have to be curious, to make your own path and go the extra mile.”
She advises marketing leaders to look for curiosity first when hiring new members of their team. After all, hard skills can be learnt, but listening to the types of questions the candidate is asking can tell you a lot about how they’ll approach the work and how much they want to invest in uncovering deeper meanings in your marketing data.
Tune in to the podcast to learn more about the curiosity mindset and get Frederique’s tips on building a holistic view of consumers and creating a network that helps you succeed.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Frederique Bazin 0:00
To be better, you have to be different. To be different, you have to be curious.
Speaker 0:04
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Tom Ollerton 0:43
Hello and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative, the creative effectiveness ad tech platform. And this is a podcast where we've done, I don't know, nearly 300 episodes, I think, by this point. And it's a real joy that I get to interview people from all around the world, Senior Marketing folk, and ask them about the future of data driven marketing. And I'm on a call with and I'm going to do a level best to get my French Canadian pronunciation right here, but Frederique Bazin, who is the head of retail marketing at SimpliSafe, so Frederique, apologies for savaging your name there. But could you give the audience a bit of a background about who you are and what you do?
Frederique Bazin 1:24
Sure, thanks for the intro, and actually, you didn't do too bad with the last name. And so, yeah, my name is Frederique. Frederique Bazin. I am French Canadian, which you might notice along the way, with a bit of an accent. And so I am currently leading the retail marketing team for SimpliSafe. And SimpliSafe is a home security, home security company, both systems and professional monitoring, based in the US, and they actually have some business in the UK as well. And before that, I spent many years, over 16 years at Bose Corporation, in various roles, marketing roles, category management roles, retail marketing and and then maybe before that, not that I want to age myself, but before that, I joined a Startup, a marketing automation startup, and went through acquisitions and IPO, and then finally acquired by IBM. So that was kind of a fun journey as well. So all in all, I would say I'm a marketer, but with curiosity and business sense as well. So obviously marketing and sales work hand in hand. So I think, yeah, that sums it up.
Tom Ollerton 2:44
So in that impressive career, and what has been the best investment of your own time, energy or money in your own career?
Frederique Bazin 2:52
So that's a really good question. I was thinking about that a little bit, and initially I was going to talk about, you know, I think learning continuous education graduate school, where you continue to develop and learn and grow, and then I'm like, well, that's not really true, so it's important, but that I don't say I don't think that would be the best investment. And then I was going to talk about maybe my journeys abroad and taking roles that global roles, and moving to different countries to work and learn and really understand the world around you. Not going to talk about that either. I think the best investment is that I have made is really around the building of the relationships. And I say this because throughout my career, I have developed, nurtured, worked on establishing really strong relationship, and it has helped me tremendously along the way, whether it's when you're working cross functionally, when you need to influence, when you need to partner with different organisations, I think being able to develop strong relationships is super important, even outside of work in your network and past colleagues or in your social network. I just think it's so important. And I say it's an investment, because it takes work like you can't just, you know, do day in and day out without making the effort, making the effort to connect, to communicate, maybe to, you know, schedule. So there's definitely an effort and work required to do this, but I think the the outcome and the benefit is so worth it. And you know, relationships, obviously, across your jobs and across your career, that you develop, great, but it's also what it allows you to do. It's, I think stay I would say, how do you say, like, abreast of what's going on out there, outside of your own world, outside of your own department, outside of your own industry, like, what are some of the things that other leaders may be challenged with and working on, what are some of the opportunities that are out there, learning about new industries, latest trends. I think it's so important to kind of keep that open mind. And those relationships that you have with these, with your network, or your kind of web of relationships, is just critical and helpful to do that. And again, I'm just going to maybe end with that would be the biggest investment. And it is an investment like, you have to work at it. It just doesn't like, oh yeah, I've got a huge, you know, tonnes of 1000s of contacts on LinkedIn, and I'm all set. No, you have to work and connect and continue to work and nurture those relationships.
Tom Ollerton 6:02
So, so I get it right. And you know, being a person who 100% agrees with you, but there's gonna be people listening to this go, Well, that sounds horrible, really, rather not do that. So what is the most efficient use of that effort and that energy? And as you say, it is difficult. What's the kind of hack, or what is the way that someone who is totally against this could do this, get the most bang for that book? Is it like going to events? Is it doing an email newsletter? Is it like having a phone call someone like, when you're short on time, what do you do for the most effect?
Frederique Bazin 6:32
Yeah, and I think there's so many different ways, and it's not every it's not like one way fits all, but if you're short on time, and this is not exactly kind of up your alley, and your favourite thing to do, I think staying in contact. And you can do it with an email, and you can share kind of what you've been up to, and you might have a question that you we want to pose the other person, I think it's about one certainly being mindful of your time, but of their time as well, and being very specific about what you're looking for, what you're aiming to do. And so you can do that either via phone call nowadays, probably more via a text or an email, and then maybe plan to meet up later. But I think it's a short communication, specific. What are you up to? This is what I've been up to. Would love to catch up, or I've got this question, and I thought you could help me with and so it gets and it gets easier as you do it and you practice it, it gets easier and you might start enjoying it too.
Tom Ollerton 7:40
So apart from investing in people and relationships, what's the best bit of advice that you have for data driven marketing specifically?
Frederique Bazin 7:48
Yeah, and I think this is a tough question, because there's just so many different areas that you can touch on, and you can probably group it. I think about it in terms of tools and processes and then perhaps around skill set, but from a tools perspective, or processes standpoint, I think the integration I was just thinking about like the importance of the data, the data that you have, the data that you have access to, and how your data kind of works together and is integrated and making sure that it's shared. So I think that is really important. And I say this because in a lot of companies, you've got the website on one team, and you've got the wholesale or sales or retail on the on another team, and there's data sitting in all of these different organisations, and the best thing you can do is ensure that you are integrated all integrating all of these sources of data so that you can have the most, I would say, comprehensive or unified customer profile, and from there, you can get into better personalization and segmentation, et cetera. But it's really about breaking barriers or breaking the silos between different groups that have different sources and disparate sources of data to be able to integrate it and share it so that you can really look at the customer more holistically, and that's not easy to do.
Tom Ollerton 9:38
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So we're gonna get to your shiny new object now, which is a curiosity mindset. So curiosity maybe not the most shiny new thing, but so I'm curious to know what in your mind is a curiosity mindset, and why have you chosen as your shiny new object?
Frederique Bazin 10:32
So not new, yes, but maybe sometimes assumed, taken for granted. I don't know what the right word might be, not forgotten, but just not weighted as important as other skill set, let's say, and I was thinking about, you know, obviously you want to be curious. You want to be asking the right questions when you're looking at your marketing, your campaigns, your performance. But it cuts more it's not just the person who's doing this job that needs to have this mindset. It cuts across all aspects of the organisation. And so it's bringing it back to even when you're hiring. And the hiring process for your team, you know, do you do you look at hard skills, that can they work this sales or marketing automation tool? Do they know how to manage the data, analyse the data, all of those things certainly can be learned, but listening to the types of questions that your candidate is asking, looking if they are curious about how you do things, etc, kind of always looking for that deeper meaning, I think, is really important. And so it stems, it starts even at the hiring process, and then it goes on to every single other functional areas that work and touch marketing, so in the creative process, in the, you know, even the marketing, performance, all of these aspects. You want people who have a curious or curiosity mindset. They... you want people who are not satisfied with just the answer that gets you know that that comes out of the report. You don't want the answer that can be you're not satisfied with just a simple answer that's given or that's evident. You want someone who always wants to learn a little bit more and go that much further, because in the end, that will be what pushes pushes your campaign to be more optimised, pushes the creative to be that much better, and so I think that's why I kind of went back to curiosity. Yes, it's not new, it's not but it's something that maybe folks need to be reminded of, even again, across the organisation, it's not just in specific roles. It's like even when you're hiring, look for people who are curious, who ask the right questions. And so that's why I picked the curiosity mindset. I thought it was kind of an interesting reminder.
Tom Ollerton 13:29
So I'm coming to the end of writing a book called "Using creativity and data in marketing," and it's all about that intersection between data and creativity and the practice of making and the one thing that's come out of that is the word curiosity. That's the one thing that ties the whole thing together. Like, if you're not curious, you can't be creative. If you if you have no curiosity, you can't come up with an idea. You'll just be like, well, we'll do what we did last time, which obviously isn't going to be good enough. Then if you're not curious about the data, if you're not just taking it at face value, then you won't get an insight. If you don't have the insight, and if you don't have the insight, you can't come up with a better idea, and so on so forth. So especially in this AI world that we're getting into now, I think curiosity, I'd go even further. So it's the reminding, reminded of it. It's a differentiator, right? So if you've got two marketing teams, both for argument, say you're completely dependent on like, a chat GPT type thing, and they go, what should the copy line be for my next performance awareness ad, whatever it is, and the machine spits out an answer. And you go, cool, but if you if you're not curious, well, why is that? Then you're not learning anything about the audience. I think Rory Sutherland said in a video so recently, it was really good. He said that the problem with AI is it just gives you the result. It doesn't give you the muscle memory of getting to that result. Yeah, you have to go through the process. You have to learn the craft. You have to be curious to get better, to creative. And once you get a creative, get the data, be curious about why, you know, why did that ad work? Why would that variant work, so on and so forth. So I completely agree with you, because I'm gonna stop ranting now. But if you. If you were sat down in front of someone on an interview, virtual or otherwise, how would you know if they were a curious, curiosity driven person or not?
Frederique Bazin 15:08
Yeah, I think I would know by first the questions that they're asking, right? So they might have a few canned questions about the organisation and maybe how you do a couple things here and there, how we're structured or but if they kind of, if the candidate is taking it kind of that one extra step and wanting to really understand and understand learnings about different campaigns, or things like that, like it's really it has to do with the questions that they're able to pose, and that will also reflect how they understand the role and how they understand the business. You reminded me Tom about a quote that from Bose. Dr Bose had said, and we lived by it, certainly at Bose, and it was Dr Bose kept saying that to be better, you have to be different. And that just keeps reminding me to be different, you have to be curious, to kind of make your path and go that extra mile, right? So it's kind of to be different. To be better, you have to be different. And in my mind, to be different, you have to be curious. So I just thought that was a nice quote to maybe throw out out there, if it can be useful for folks.
Tom Ollerton 16:24
Yeah. I mean, I say that a lot internally. I'm like, if you're different, you can always win. If you're the same as everyone else, yeah, you have to be the best, and that is, you know, that's expensive and tough, but if you can be different, you could be in a league of one, right? And if you're a league of one, you don't compete with anyone else. So I, like, wholeheartedly, also agree with that. So I'm gonna need to try and argue. To try and argue with a bit argue with a bit more here. So I wonder if anyone sits there and thinks I'm not a curious person, right, in my head, I'm not a curious person, but I like, how do you know if you're curious? Like, you tell me how to spot a curious person to ask, like, a tangential, interesting question in the interview process, apart from, like, you know, the boring, wrote stuff. But how, how do you know, if you are curious enough?
Frederique Bazin 17:06
That's a good question. I think everybody's got the ability to it. I think it's, you know, you have to be motivated to do it. You have to be inspired. You have to be not satisfied. You have to be kind of, the kind of person who just isn't satisfied with what is given and what they see, or what you know you learn is you you just, you're inspired, you're motivated. You are hungry for and not satisfied with what you get. And so I think that most people have that ability. It's whether or not they want to go for it or not, right? Like maybe some folks just, you know, let me, let me just clock it in. I don't need to know any more. This is not part of my role. This is not part of my own realm of responsibility. But if you're someone who is interested, who is never satisfied with the status quo, never satisfied with what kind of that answer that they get. You're someone that gets inspired by key topics and like you're fascinated and want to know everything there is to know. I think then that would make you a curious person.
Tom Ollerton 18:30
And then how would you balance curiosity with getting the job done, right? You know? So, for example, someone emails you Frederique, and says, I run this startup called XYZ. It can do ABC, the curious person will go, Oh, I'm going to look at their website, but you got stuff to deliver by the end of the day. You haven't got time for that. So you can't explore everything, so you have to choose something. So how do you balance getting the job done, paying the bills and being a curious type?
Frederique Bazin 18:58
Yeah, I think you're curious, but with the sense, too, that you're going to get a better outcome out of it for the work, right? So if you're looking at campaign performance, or if you're looking at, you know, media performance, and okay, you see the CPA is doing this, okay, attribution that, all right, these are the results. Let's just kind of tweak a little bit. No, it's like, well, how did the creative perform, and did we have promotions running at the same time? Or did we, you know, try to really understand so that your next iteration is that much better, and then, you know, the work benefits from it. And so I think it's connecting. Obviously, you can be curious about all kinds of things, but ideally at the workplace, you're curious about some of these answers and data points that will make you more efficient, effective, more you can optimise better, and then ultimately you get to a better outcome.
Tom Ollerton 19:59
Frederique, unfortunately, we've come to the end of the podcast, and I think I've done a bad job of interviewing you, because I totally agree with your mindset, and try to live that with with and at automated creative. But if anyone does want to argue with you or get in touch, where is the best place to do that and what makes a message that you will actually respond to?
Frederique Bazin 20:20
Yeah, so absolutely, LinkedIn is probably a great place to to find me, and I respond to all messages. I just I'm I like connections, and I like developing and nurturing relationships, so I practice what I preach. And so LinkedIn is probably the best place to reach me, and then a message like the type of message I think I said it earlier, just short to the point. And, yeah, I'm, you know, maybe not a sales pitch in the first email that would be appreciated, but short to the point. And then I look forward to connecting.
Tom Ollerton 21:00
Frederique, thank you so much for your time.
Frederique Bazin 21:02
It was a pleasure. Tom, thanks so much for having me.
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