HP’s Jose Gorbea on How to Stop People Skipping Ads

Marketers often focus on the wrong metrics and lose sight of how to create meaningful connections with consumers. Jose (Pepe) Gorbea, Global Head of Brands, Agencies & Sustainability Innovation at HP and Co-founder of StoryMaking4Good, believes in co-creation as a different way to make content that converts.

For most of us, co-creation is always an option, but it is sitting dormant in our minds. “You just need to flip the switch on,” says Pepe. Working with Nescafé in Mexico, he did just that, leading to pushing double-digit sales growth by making marketing relevant to consumers.

On the podcast, Pepe explains how to convert without clutter by focusing on the metrics that matter and bringing the community stories to the front of your marketing strategy. We talk about bringing new year’s resolutions onto coffee jars, making the buyers’ decision-making more meaningful, too. And we discuss how simple co-creation can be for brands once the “switch” has been flipped on.

Tune in to find out how to make unskippable ads for the right reasons and why co-creation is a shiny new object you may be overlooking.

The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.

Speaker 0:12
Are you a fitness loving foodie? Then defy snacks is for you. Defy offers real high quality chocolate you love, combined with functional ingredients, giving you as much as 26 grammes of protein per bag. So you can be both a little bit bad and a little bit good at the same time as a female owned brand, defy dedicates a portion of its profits to other women owned businesses currently sold in the US. You can find us on defy with an i snacks.com and follow us on social at defy snacks.

Tom Ollerton 0:45
Hello and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative, the creative effectiveness ad tech platform, and this is a podcast about the future of data driven marketing. Each week, I get to interview someone senior from our industry to hear about their journey, but also their vision for the future of data driven marketing. And this week is no different. I'm on a call with Jose Gorbea, who is Global Head of brands, agencies and sustainability innovation at HP, also CEO and co founder of StoryMaking4Good. So Pepe, can you give us a bit of background on who you are and what you do?

Pepe Gorbea 1:26
Absolutely. So pleasure to be here. Tom first and foremost, it's a joy to be here, sharing this time with you. Who am I? People call me, Pepe. My name is Jose, but in Spanish, Pepe and Jose is like Charles and Chuck in English, and I was born and raised in Mexico City as part of a family of four. And very early in my career, I discovered marketing, and since then, I have done a lot of work with a lot of CPG brands across food and beverage companies, mainly on telling stories, you know, and doing brand strategy and innovation so that, you know, brands can become more relevant out there to communities, but not only from a business point of view, but also with purpose, you know, driving social impact or environmental impact and so on. So that has been a little bit my MO and my essence as a person. Now I live in Barcelona. Over the last eight years, I moved here, I started working for HP as the Global Head of brands innovation, building up a consulting business for them where we could actually teach marketers the power of personalization and why personalization imprinted items like packaging or, you know, magazines or outdoor media or even clothing, creates a deeper, more memorable engagement between brands and consumers. So that has defined my career across, you know, companies like Nestle, Kraft Foods, Mondelez International, HP and up to the point that I created my own startup out of teaching classes in Esade university in a top Marketing School in actually, Esade is one of the top 10 schools in the world when it comes to marketing. And I teach a programme there at the intersection of marketing and sustainability, which is called story making for good, which is enabling brands, businesses, and most importantly, future marketers, to bring a mindset around co creation, to drive behaviour change and be more relevant, rather than just trying to put an app out there and try to get as many people as possible to see it, to see if your you know, investment and ROI metrics are improving, you know, when it comes to brand budget and advertising. So in a way, my journey has been defined by a lot of resilience, a lot of change and adaptability. I've touched four countries across that career, you know, between Mexico, the US, Switzerland and Spain. And for the foreseeable future, I see Spain as a good location to be in.

Tom Ollerton 3:53
So there's always a fixed list of questions for this podcast, and guests always choose the one that they want to and you've chosen the question that almost no one wants to answer. So I love that you've chosen this question, and it is, how do you want people to remember your career? So tell me.

Pepe Gorbea 4:11
Yeah, I think the you know, out of the 10 questions, the other nine are more basic in general. You can see them even in an interview for a job and things like that. Number 10 for me, speaks volumes about building a legacy, a way of thinking and changing, not only a business or a brand, but actually culture, you know, the way people think and the way people act. So how do I want them to remember my career? You know, I want them to see me as as a light for good. You know that is inviting any marketer to flip a switch in their minds, to think about how important it is to involve their communities in their storytelling. So if they just think of me, I want them to think of co creation. I want them to think about how important it is for brands to actually channel and amplify the point of view of their communities. If we just do that, I think that we make advertising something that people don't want to remove, you know, from their day to day experiences. If you think about a mobile phone today, you know, whenever anyone that is listening opens YouTube, what is the first thing you do when you open youtube? You want to watch your content, and the first thing that happens is you get a very annoying ad where, at the bottom right, you need to wait a few seconds to click Skip video, because you want to get to your content. And I want to be remembered as a person that prevents humans from skipping advertising, because advertising has a bigger role to play than just selling products or services. It can actually help communities thrive and improve. You know, the impact we can have in our planet.

Tom Ollerton 6:01
So I love that ambition and how you want to be remembered. Yeah, but I'm going to have to take you down from that global and timeless view into a very specific question, which is, what bit of advice do you have for people who are listening to this podcast about how to become a better data driven marketer.

Pepe Gorbea 6:23
First of all, two things, I would say, learn to listen and focus on the metrics that matter, because data driven is very sexy, but there's just too much data out there. And if you don't know how to listen to what the data is telling you or what people are saying, you know, let's say the data is stories coming from social media, and you don't have clarity and focus on the metrics that matter, you will be lost very easily in endless conversations where you would be paralysed by analysis. And has happened to me in my in my CPG career before you over analyse many, many things, instead of just focus, focusing on the things that matter. And for me, if you ask me, what is the metric that matters when it comes to data, any indication of the data that is, you know, making people convert. What do I mean by conversion, acquiring a service or a product. You know that moment you click to say, I want it not to say, how many views, how many impressions? What are your behaviours? What are your trends? What are the patterns is? What are, what are the things that really make a person click into saying, I want that service, I want that product. Whatever is a conversion metric, in my personal view, is the most important part of data driven marketing today, because if you would be a CMO right now, Tom, one of the biggest challenges you would be facing is your CFO. The CFO will be challenging your marketing budget more intensely than ever before, and you would need to explain to your CFO why you know driving awareness is important for your company, why building brand equity and driving performance marketing and in the end, it all boils down to what is truly driving sales, which is in the... in a data driven world, conversion, conversion metrics, many companies report them in different ways, but to me answering the question, it has to be to two things, learn to listen, as I said, and focus on conversion metrics.

Tom Ollerton 8:28
How do you advise people, or what would your direction be on finding the metrics that matter? I mean, it makes so sense, so much sense, isn't it, the metrics that matter, it sounds so deliberate, but as you also said, there are, there is just too much data. And you talked a lot about conversion and sales, some people are going to argue, well, you know, it's, you know, it's not all about last click. So what would be your approach to really understanding the suite of metrics, or the basket of metrics that you you should be focusing on?

Pepe Gorbea 9:00
It's finding the correlation between your marketing you know, and brand storytelling efforts and sales spikes in a community in a location with a retailer, wherever you define as your scope of where you want to sell or increase sales. Whatever drives a spike in sales, that's where you find the correlation between what you are doing as a brand, what you are telling as a story, versus what people are actually clicking or buying. And that correlation is different for different businesses, you know, across B to B and B to C, and it's up to each team to decide and discuss internally, really where the correlation is the strongest, and why is that correlation the strongest? And that's what drives a lot of efforts to being more laser focused on where to put the investment dollars on. You know, I've done a lot of work my last seven years at Mondelez International, when I was there, with them in Zurich on zero based budgeting, which is a very strict, financially driven approach to how you build your budget every year for in this case, for advertising, bottom up. Instead of just saying, oh, last year, I spent a million dollars in advertising. This year, I want 10% more, because I'm going to grow my business 10% this really starts from from a bottom up approach where you question everything every year, and you really question all the efforts you've done over the years that have led to sales, because it's the only way that you will get the backing of your CEO and your CFO, because they will, it will help you build credibility and strengthen you know the ROI that you generate out of your efforts in storytelling.

Tom Ollerton 10:52
This episode of the shiny new object podcast is brought to you in partnership with Madfest, whether it's live in London or streamed online to the global marketing community, you can always expect a distinctive and daring blend of fast paced content, startup innovation, pitches and unconventional entertainment from Madfest events. You'll find me causing trouble on stage, recording live versions of this podcast and sharing a beer with the nicest and most influential people in marketing. Check it out at www.madfestlondon.com.

Tom Ollerton 11:29
We're going to move on now to your shiny new object, which is co creation. So some might argue that it's not that shiny, not that new, but I have a feeling that your attitude and your approach to it will make it new. So why have you chosen co creation as your shiny new project?

Pepe Gorbea 11:48
Great question, and the reason is very simple. When I started working for HP and driving a lot of solutions to innovate in the world of marketing and storytelling behind personalization, I had the opportunity to work with a brand of coffee called Nescafe. I guess everyone, everyone drinks a coffee at some point in their lives, or most people do. When you start, you know, in your morning, you open your cupboard, then you start your day, you get some energy, some caffeine, and you get going. And working with them, they had a challenge that they wanted to rejuvenate the brand, and they didn't know how to, you know, all the approaches that they've had in this was in Mexico at the end of the last decade, in 2017, 18, we discovered, you know, a very interesting insight, that many Mexicans want to have a resolution for the New Year. They want to become a better person. And what the brand was trying to look for is, okay, how do we channel their voices into what are the new year resolutions that are important? So instead of a creative agency doing some research and saying, Oh, these are the top 20 resolutions that people want, what we did is we co created the resolutions with the community. So we went to social media, we asked them a very simple question, next year, how are you becoming a better version of yourself? And people answered a million things. So talking about metrics and data, we analysed, you know, what were the strongest where the resolutions have the strongest resonance in terms of shareability and likes and things like that. So we actually ranked the top 300 new year resolutions, and we decided to print them on the labels of the coffee. And the coffee had a big idea that we developed for them called begin to I begin to do something. And that opened up, you know, a whole platform of co creation for that brand, where people saw, imagine, you walk into an aisle of coffee in supermarket and you see 300 different resolutions on the labels until you find the one that is relevant to you. Once you find it, maybe I don't know Tom, you know, you personally, but let's say that you want to do exercise and you want to shave off some weight next year, so you want to start doing exercise or going biking, cycling. And you find that one and say, Okay, I'm going to take this for me. And every time you open your cupboard, you have a visual reminder that when you drink your coffee, you need to fulfil that resolution, because you have a commitment to yourself. So people started buying these coffee jars, not only to enjoy the coffee, but to fulfil an objective. At the start of the new year. In January, it became so relevant that people started sharing the resolutions. And through a few weeks, people started gifting coffee jars to loved ones, because maybe, you know, you invite me Tom to a Christmas dinner. And you know, usually, what would I bring to a Christmas dinner if I, if I show up in your doorbell, usually, what would would it be? Maybe chocolate, maybe wine, maybe even flowers. It was never, never a jar of coffee, right? But because you are my friend, and let's. Say that I want you to quit smoking, and I give you a jar of coffee, which means begin to work on my health, or begin to quit smoking. I'm giving you something much more important, which is that reminder that, first of all, I'm your friend and I care about you, but second, every morning, you start your day trying to fulfil that commitment with a cup of coffee. And that actually turned this coffee brand, which I think most of us know, into a gift, into a Christmas gift, where it was highly unexpected that it will become a Christmas gift. And that enabled the brand to grow double digit and to implement a systematic approach to co creation, where the campaign is executed every year during Christmas in Mexico, and the brand has enjoyed double digit growth because of an effort like this. So why is my shiny new object of co creation? Because that's the first time in my career that I truly experienced the power of co creation, when I saw that, when you involve people in the story and you give them a higher sense of purpose, beyond what the product does or a service does, they want to get involved. They want to get their voices heard, and they want to be part of a community. We all as humans, have a very strong sense of belonging and co creation gives you that very few brands and brand decision makers understand this. I have had the luxury of working for the last eight years behind this shiny new object. Why do I call it new? Because it's often overlooked. You know, people think they know user generated content, and they know the Creator economy and all of these things, but they don't know how to unlock the power of co creation, and that's where my niche, you know, and my relevancy to brand strategy has come as a new core of marketing and storytelling. And this is exactly why this university in Barcelona asked me to become a teacher and teach a programme there that actually helps students unlock their thinking towards this shiny new object. Now there's a follow up to this Nescafe story, but before we go into that follow up, I'll stop there to see you know a little bit what you have to say about this Tom.

Tom Ollerton 17:17
So it's interesting the context that you gave earlier around your advice, which is essentially, keep the CFO happy right, push sales through the till, especially in a world where the right metrics need to be, need to be sales metrics. It's like it's all about shifting product at this point in time. Yet your approach is very different to that like pay to play, just make some ads, drive some traffic, drive some add to baskets, drive sweet conversions, you know, massage the bottom line. What you're saying is it's slower. It's complicated. It takes real empathy. It will take time. So the story is fantastic, and I can see everything in my head. I could see all the different jars. I could see the person gifting it or arriving at someone's house. You told that story beautifully, but how are you convincing brands of the power of co creation in a world where people just want clicks and sales?

Pepe Gorbea 18:27
Because in the end, what matters is what drives clicks and sales with purpose and with behaviour change more than ever, If you read annual reports from companies, purpose driven marketing is always important and relevant, not only business driven marketing. So I think in the end, it's very easy and tempting to get lost in the pressure of the short term and just drive a promotion very quickly into a retailer to gain sales and, you know, gain market share, co creation. What we've discovered over the years is it's not complicated. It's actually simple. Once you've done it, the first time, doing it for the first time is the big unlock for a company and a brand, and that's why Nescafe has a follow up as a story. The second story that came through a couple of years later is because that marketing team and their agency partners already believed in co creation as a better technique to tell stories and to unlock growth and clicks and sales. They came with a second challenge to me and my team, and they said, We want to tell a sustainability story behind Nescafe, because we've been supporting 20,000 coffee farmers over the last 10 years, and we never tell their stories. It's always about us, the brand and us the heroes and me, me, me, the brand that will tell you what to feel, what to think, what to buy. But we never really look at our communities across our value chain, and also give them a voice to drive transparency. You know, in the supply chain and authenticity in our storytelling. So we unlocked the second big idea for them, which is called Tributo, or a tribute to the coffee farmers. And we actually broadcasted 20,000 stories over the last six years, since 2018 to 2024 of these farmers on how Nescafe as a brand, supports them to create prosperity, to give them a home, give them access to education, or pay schooling for their children, and so on and so forth. But the stories are not told by the brand. The brand is just a vessel that co-creates these stories with the farmers. And imagine every jar has a different picture with a different name, and behind it the QR code that you can scan and actually learn the story of each farmer, and you can even contact them via email, which is actually quite transformational for the people that actually did that. That brand grew, not only sales double digit because of this activity, it won the most coveted marketing effectiveness award in the world, which is the global big FE. So I guess you know which one this is. Tom, as you come from advertising yourself. So they let me give you a data point. No brand in the history of Mexico as a country have ever won the global big Fe until this campaign happened. Why do they win it, because they increased sales in the short term and in the long term. Over an extended period of time, they transformed the community, and they drove really social impact beyond sales under their equity metrics on Nescafe being perceived as a brand that is not only socially responsible, but actually improves the life of coffee farmers grew from 44% of people believing that to 78% of people believing that. And this is data that comes from a third party that Nestle uses to audit these things. So when that happened Tom, you really see what you can achieve with co creation. And the trick is doing it the first time because the second time with Nescafe, it was actually quite easy and quite simple to get to this idea. It was almost a no brainer, because we had gone through the experience of the previous campaign on the new year resolution. So now, when I work with brands, it's all about unlocking this mindset and unlocking an approach that actually, to your point, combines data driven strategies for you need the data to co create, you know, and to submit stories, so to speak, and then amplify them the right way. As a last point I'll make here is, you know, I've become a good advisor to a company of employment services worldwide and their CMO, I cannot say their name because of confidentiality, just came to me and she said, Pepe, I'm employing 2 million people every year, and until I saw your programme, I really flipped the switch in my mind that I need to broadcast their stories. I've always been talking about my brand for the last 25 years in this company, and it never occurred to me that I should prioritise the stories of the people that are employed by my services, and I should be amplifying that and making it a core, you know, brand strategy in the in the years to come. So she has been building this into her company, because of of this approach, because of this shiny new object. And for me, the most exciting part is, this is in B to B, actually not in traditional B to C. So you can really see that co creation. It is shiny because it works and it is new because people have it in their minds. But the switch is turned off. My job is to turn it on, and that's why I go back to your question, how do you want people to remember your career now that I told you these stories, I just want people to turn on that switch when they think of me. It's as simple as that.

Tom Ollerton 23:50
Well, look, that is a beautiful moment to end this conversation. You want to flip the switch in the minds of marketers to unlock potential of co creation for the good of everyone. I think that's a lovely thought. So if someone wants to flip the switch, how should they get in contact with you?

Pepe Gorbea 24:11
Simple, I have an email. That email is my first name, at P, E, P, E, Pepe at story making the number four, good.com story making number four, and then good.com story making for good dot.com

Tom Ollerton 24:28
Well, look, I wish you all the best with with your unique and exciting take on marketing, and I look forward to catching up with you in the near future.

Pepe Gorbea 24:38
Absolutely. Tom a pleasure to be here as always, and look forward to continuing, staying connected with you and the audience.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Listen to our ‘Shiny New Object’ Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Soundcloud.