Charlotte Tilbury's Sian Nicholas on Using Employees for Authentic Marketing

There's a new way to humanise your brand and give it more authenticity on social media, says Sian Nicholas, Global Social Media Manager at Charlotte Tilbury. Using employees and their unique talents lets consumers see more about your brand and makes the content more believable.

Ideally, combining a multitude of voices, from top tier influencers to employees and genuine customers paints a complete picture of a brand and enables audiences to warm up to it more. The key is to stay true to your core values and you'll not only be winning consumers' trust, but also building a strong social portfolio.

On the latest episode of the Shiny New Object podcast, Sian talks about how employee-generated content contributes to marketing effectiveness, gives her top advice to students who want to break into the industry, and points out the importance of purpose and knowing your "why." Tune in to hear more.

The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.

Sian Nicholas 0:00
People love solutions. So what solution are you solving? And always think back to your why, and when you think you have your why, ask why again and keep asking those questions.

Speaker 0:15
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Tom Ollerton 0:48
Hello and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. This is a weekly podcast about the future of data driven marketing. And my name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of Automated C, the creative effectiveness adte platform. So this is a weekly show where I interview leaders about the future and their vision for the future of data driven marketing. And this week is no different. I call with Sian Nicholas, who is Global Social Media Manager at Charlotte Tilbury beauty. So Sian, for anyone who doesn't know who you are and what you do, could you give us a bit of background?

Sian Nicholas 1:20
Yeah, sure. So I'm Sian. I've been working at Charlotte Tilbury for over four years now. Started there as global Junior social media coordinator, and then worked my way up to manager. Absolutely love it. Before that, I was working at Kurt Geiger for about two and a half years, I believe. And I've always kind of worked in social media and fashion and beauty. I studied fashion as well at university, so anything up until that point where I was interning or doing work experience was all very much related to the fashion industry as well.

Tom Ollerton 1:54
So that's an impressive career. But what I'm curious to know is that, like, how did you, how did you sort of break into it, and what advice would you give to a smart, driven student who is trying to follow in your footsteps?

Sian Nicholas 2:07
Yeah, so I I got quite lucky when I was at university that I had a university tutor, Anna, who I still keep in touch with now, who really felt like I had the talent in social media and digital marketing when we did a module on it, and it was honestly that one comment that kind of pushed me into that. Because when I was a teenager, social media, like started to exist, but it wasn't such a huge thing. So I think the job that I went into university thinking I would do was more along the styling route, because the social media manager jobs were few and far between at the time, and I remember Anna saying on one of my first days at university, any of you who've got a fixed idea of what you want to do will probably change by the end of the three years, and mine definitely did. But I have presented to groups of students a few times, and the key takeaway I always try to mention to them is take risks, take up space and network. It's so crucial early on in your career, in particular, to network and put yourself out there and see what's available.

Tom Ollerton 3:11
What you mean by what you mean by take up space, I think I know what you mean, getting people's faces or like, go on. Tell me more about that.

Sian Nicholas 3:17
Yeah, I think in terms of putting yourself out there. My only regrets all link back to me holding back. Ultimately, maybe that's because I grew up as quite a shy person, but I think a lot of people that contact me are aspiring fashion students or aspire to work in social media and marketing, and I'm sure a lot of the people listening to this also will be so to those people, I say, don't be a dimmed light in the corner. It's such a cliche phrase, but fake it till you make it. Is that phrase has really helped me overcome new challenges where where I'm navigating new spaces, and there's so many different types of people in the world, I think if you were given a creative gift, I believe you should be sharing that craft with people. But I think a lot of the time where you're new to the industry, you maybe think, oh, is this a silly question? And I think if you're ever asking if something is a silly question, then you're probably in the wrong space, because no question is the silly one. And I think anyone who's been in the industry longer will always be happy to help answer that and navigate with you.

Tom Ollerton 4:05
So we had a previous guest Izzy. He said, the hardest questions to ask are the ones where you feel stupid asking them. And quite quite often it's like, no one's gonna judge you going, Oh gosh, you don't know what that acronym means, like, because the answer is never gonna be that complicated in marketing, generally speaking. So I always think, yeah, even if you're like, sitting there thinking, and I'll look like an idiot to ask this question. Just ask it. And that's like, I think that actually probably at any age of your career, really, I've started doing it recently. I've just got over the shame of not knowing something and just going, what does that mean? I usually find that's quite good, yeah.

Sian Nicholas 4:52
Because I think if you can find someone that you admire on an aspirational and professional level, like, why not reach out to them? And ask for advice. I think nine times out of 10 people will want to help and answer those questions. You know, it takes two minutes, and since they were once in in those students position as well, and I'm sure they also needed some help along the way. You know, no one's born knowing the answers to everything.

Tom Ollerton 5:13
Another quick one related to that. So you're like, you go and give your time to students. So I don't that at all because I'm like, What can I possibly tell a student? But then also, like, I think, you know what? What am I gonna get out of it? I sound like an idiot here. So I'm asking you a question I'm embarrassed about. Like, what? Like, how do you do that? Why do you do that? And how do you know it's kind of worthwhile for them and for you?

Sian Nicholas 5:43
So I've been every time that I've done it, I've been approached, I think, purely because I've kept in contact with staff at both my school and my uni, and then put in touch with other people subsequently. And as I mentioned, I was such a shy kid, but public speaking, for some reason now, doesn't phase me in the slightest. It's almost like I'm making up for all the years I was silent. Yeah, I think all these sorts of things are out there, if it's if it's something that's not coming to you. I mean, there's so many great websites like the docs, where people can find any events going on in the industry and any opportunities. And we're so lucky these days with all the resources that we have to hand. I think you just need to look for them.

Tom Ollerton 6:25
Well, that is two bits of great advice. So now on to some more, like practical data driven stuff. So what is your killer bit of advice to become a better data driven marketer? What's that kind of one bit of advice you find yourself sharing most often?

Sian Nicholas 6:38
Yeah, I think if you're already a data driven marketer wanting to better yourself. Think it also kind of links back to the idea of what is the purpose and what is it you're trying to achieve. Like people love solutions, so what solution are you solving? And always think back to your why, and when you think you have your why, ask why again, and keep asking those questions. And I think also staying up to date with the latest platforms and tools and really utilising and exploring them fully, as opposed to just an awareness of them, is key. So many things are trial and error in the ever evolving digital space. So I think you either try to keep up and take the risks, or you get left behind.

Tom Ollerton 7:17
And so how are you balancing that as you get more senior? Because that is a real strength of going back to the students, really. And someone else on this podcast was saying, the great thing about being really young and like a graduate, is you have this kind of innate exposure to social and particularly Tiktok, I'd say, at this point in time, you know, before the next thing comes along where you're in it, right? It's your social life, it's your search engine, it's your organisation. It's like, you know, it's all that stuff, so that you're going to have such a native understanding of that, versus someone my age, I'm 47 like, I'm just, there's no way I can get into all of the platforms, so I need to make sort of quite strong decisions about where I put my time, and with your career progression that you've talked through, surely you must be getting the stage where you go, I haven't got time for that. So how would you work out when is the right when is the right time, and what is the right thing to focus on?

Sian Nicholas 8:14
I think it's important to remember you don't need to be everything to everyone. I think different companies are suited to different platforms. And I think the beauty of digital marketing is that you can be good at it, whether you have a more practical way of thinking or a more creative way of thinking, because those powers combined mean you can kind of bounce off each other and create something great. And sometimes along the way, you meet people in the industry who are great at both. And I think that's what makes an exceptional data driven marketer, because they truly understand everything from a 360 perspective. But I think it is relying on your team a lot and being there for each other, because trying to tap into every segment of the industry, obviously, like you say, is near impossible. So I'd say, yeah, don't ever try and be everything to everyone. And I think being adaptive as well is a huge factor in driving your growth. I think regardless of your skill set, whether you are a more strategic person or a more creative person, I think being able to adapt is what will set you apart and keep you ahead of the curve.

Speaker 1 9:26
This episode of the shiny new object podcast is brought to you in partnership with Mad fest, whether it's live in London or streamed online to the global marketing community, you can always expect a distinctive and daring blend of fast paced content, startup innovation pitches and unconventional entertainment from Mad fest events. You'll find me causing trouble on stage, recording live versions of this podcast and sharing a beer with the nicest and most influential people in marketing. Check it out at www.madfestlondon.com.

Speaker 1 9:57
So we're now going to come on to your shiny new object, which is employee generated content. So it's pretty rare on this podcast that it's really obvious to understand what the shiny object is, but I think I get what that is. But why have you chosen that as your shiny new object, and why is that the future of data driven marketing for you now.

Sian Nicholas 10:24
So, I mean, it's of interest to me because it's something that I do in my job sometimes, anyway. So it was, it's very much been on my radar for a while, but simply put, to anyone that's not so familiar with it, it's content that features existing employees of a company, as opposed to contracting any external models or influencers and content creators, and I know to a lot of people in the industry, this isn't a new thing, but I do believe it's still in the early adoption stage, and I wouldn't class it as the next big thing until it's reached much more people outside the marketing sphere. I think it can really humanise brands and offer a more authentic approach that resonates with audiences.

Tom Ollerton 11:04
So you go bit go a bit deeper on that. So, so I'm a brand, and I've never done employee generated content before, like, how are you selling that in to senior management, other than presumably, you're not paying a great deal of money for it?

Sian Nicholas 11:18
Yeah. Well, obviously that's one of the bonuses, which I think for startups in particular, it's such a fantastic opportunity, because they might not have such big budgets to outsource, and there's so much you can do with them, like, why not create a monthly segment with someone if they're becoming familiar with the audience? And I think it's often overlooked what other skills and talents people might have if they aren't relevant to their day to day role, but actually getting to know what your employees are capable of could be hugely beneficial to your content. For example, are there trained dancers, singers, people who are very gifted with musical instruments? And how can you utilise those things to fulfil a brief? I think it just takes away so many steps that you would have with hiring external people for projects, and I'm absolutely not saying that it will get rid of influencer marketing or stop models becoming a thing, because that would be quite a wild statement to make, but I think and influencer and content creation is still obviously going to be a huge thing for brands for every brands for a very long time. But I always say that varying your content types while maintaining brand identity is the key to preventing audience fatigue in such a saturated space. So if you're combining a multitude of different voices, from top tier influencers to employees, genuine customers, whatever that mix may be, while staying true to the core values of what you're representing, then you're winning consumer trust, as well as a super strong social portfolio.

Tom Ollerton 12:51
So how would you do it? What's, what's the process? I mean, I had never thought about employees play musical instruments. That's such a mad idea, but I can see, you know, I can see how that that would make genuine content. But how did you it was? Is it? Do you put like, do you email everyone? So who's in for it? Or do you put out a brief? How does it work?

Sian Nicholas 13:08
I think it would vary from company to company, because it is such a new thing. I think I am seeing a lot of jobs pop up now where they are more centred around on camera work specifically. And I think this is something we'll see more of over the next couple of years, especially as brands adopt a more social first strategy,

Tom Ollerton 13:27
What as in, as in the job description.

Sian Nicholas 13:30
Yeah, yeah. So I've seen roles pop up on LinkedIn where people are hiring pretty much purely for a face of the brand. Essentially, it's not something I've seen a lot of, but I do think it's something that will pop up more. But yeah, as I say, I think it varies between companies: for us, for instance, within our social team, it would just be a case of discussing it and then working out logistics. I'm always happy to be on the camera. Something pops up. And a few of the other girls as well. So it's something we're all happy with, and I think a lot of people are, because it's something new and fun for them that they might not have thought about doing.

Tom Ollerton 14:13
So go back one step. So I've never heard of this, sorry, but people are going right come and work for this company and be a social media exec manager, whatever. But actually, we also need you to be the face of our brand as well.

Sian Nicholas 14:29
Yeah, yeah, I started seeing that.

Tom Ollerton 14:31
Right. That is, that is crazy to me, I'm gonna, I'm gonna suggest that goes in everyone's job spec at Automated Creative. That's not gonna work, right? Okay, so can you talk about some practical experience, or some anecdotes about when it has worked or hasn't worked, or things that you've seen, or brands you admire?

Sian Nicholas 14:47
Yeah, do you know what I've actually seen a lot of the supermarkets doing really great jobs of this, because I think it's also not something that brands are just orchestrating on their own pages. I see a lot of the supermarkets, for instance, with their more like localised pages that are just for that specific branch, and they'll create such fun content, and it's really entertaining, which obviously is what makes people absorb content. For the most part is whether it's entertaining or not, but it's the authenticity that people really gravitate towards, and that's the main reason why I think it is the next big thing in digital marketing is that authenticity point.

Tom Ollerton 15:26
Yeah, because I think that the reason that influencers work when they work is obviously the authenticity piece, which an ad can never really be right. So that, I think there's an argument that a certain generation can just spot an ad so far off, they're like, it's an ad, right? But what they can't spot is an influencer ad. And I think influencers should be categorised under ads, because that's what they are. Sure the influencer loves it, sure it's a great creative idea, but you're advertising the product. You can't link to an influencer collaboration and not have the product in some form, right? It's an ad. It's different to like a like an interruptive ad, I guess, I guess it's interruptive as well. But I saw a report on performance marketing world that said, you know, trust and influence of influencers is going down, and actually, people are starting to trust chatgpt more than they are their friends and stuff, right? So it's like, just an interesting direction where we're going so I think that actually, yeah, if you've got a an employee generating content, then, like, they work there, they wouldn't be putting their hand up unless they enjoy it to a degree. You're not going to go on camera, because this place is rubbish. I mean, it's not going to work. So, yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think it's this, it's the, it's the next kind of layer down of true authenticity to be speaking for the brand directly. You know, you're not, you know, a paid gun for hire. So it would be great to know about how your efforts have gone. How do you think it's played out at Charlotte Tilbury?

Sian Nicholas 16:57
Yeah. I mean, we've had some really successful videos. We had one that I did for, I believe it was Black Friday a couple of years back that got two or 3 million views.

Tom Ollerton 17:10
And this is, this was used in it, or was this your, your crazy?

Sian Nicholas 17:14
Yes, it was me in, like, a shopping scenario in our in our Black Friday sale. So, yeah, super fun video, and we actually, it was quite funny. We launched our Covent Garden flagship earlier in the year and had this amazing social plan all around it. But actually, funnily enough, there was a guy on Tiktok that, unbeknownst to me, filmed a video of me with one of our giant Charlotte Tilbury shopping bags. And I think it's got something like three and a half million views and half a million likes, and he's used the Vogue by Madonna audio over it. And I thought it was hysterical, because I had no idea I was being filmed, and it looks like a marketing setup, but it was genuine content. So yeah, another bit of authentic content which wasn't specifically employee generated, but in a kind of backhanded way it was.

Speaker 1 18:06
We're talking about, like, you know, 6 million views here. Are you ready to tip over here from, like, it's pretty brilliant. So odd question. Do you think this would work in B2B or do you think it has to be consumer stuff, because I'm purely thinking for my own business, right? Like, how would... could you leverage a subject matter expert or, or is that what most B2B marketing is, anyway, employee generated content?

Sian Nicholas 18:39
Yeah, I don't think there's a linear way that that employee generated content looks, I think it's also about what works for you and making it work for you. And if it's something that isn't relevant to a company, that then fine, but I don't think it's something that can be overlooked now, in the coming years, from a marketing perspective, because I think where consumers are demanding more transparency and authenticity, it's an incredibly powerful way to differentiate yourself in this crowded landscape.

Tom Ollerton 19:13
So unfortunately, we're at time now. So if someone wants to get in touch with you, either to hire you as a highly successful cosmetics influencer or talk about employee generated content. Where's the best place to do that? What makes a great outreach to you?

Sian Nicholas 19:28
So I'm happy to be contacted via LinkedIn, which is just my name, Sian Nicholas, or I'm also quite active on Instagram, which is also my name. I think what makes a great outreach message is being succinct but personable, so tailoring your message to the person, and the same goes for job applications, really catering it with care and consideration and making it clear you've listened and done your research.

Speaker 1 19:50
Brilliant. The book we've just released, I think I put it at the end of it, or something like, if you've made it to the end of the book, send me an email that says, pink unicorns, and then I'll love. Know, actually, you know what? Someone mentioned that to me the other day. I'm not gonna send you an email, but Pink Unicorn doesn't get forgotten about. And Sian, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

Sian Nicholas 20:12
Thank you for having me.

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