Episode 169 / Sara Master / Constellation Brands / Senior Director, eCommerce Marketing & Digital Shelf
How To Create A Value Exchange With Consumers
Sara Master is the Senior Director, Ecommerce Marketing & Digital Shelf for Constellation Brands, working to ensure that all the drinks brands she looks after can be found online and are presented accurately on digital shelves. Her Shiny New Object is the value exchange with consumers, moving away from the approach of disruptive marketing and into ways to be more consumer led.
For too long, we’ve approached marketing in the “Mad Men” style of telling consumers what we think they want and persuading them to buy it. However, according to Sara, that’s not creating value and not giving consumers what they want. She thinks “it’s time to give consumers what they need and move marketing past a disruption.”
Reframing marketing to be about what a brand can give consumers, enticing them to purchase products based on what suits them best, echoes Sara’s experience moving from studying to become an English teacher to becoming a marketer. She recalls that she thought that, if she can convince reluctant students to read Hamlet, then she can find a way to convince someone looking to buy an alcoholic drink to hone in on a specific brand. Ultimately, in both cases, it’s about finding the value that a particular product holds for the consumer, to sway them in favour of it.
According to research by Attest, the large majority (57%) of what consumers want is humour, which Sara completely agrees with. Humour is also value, especially in a time when we’ve gone through two bleak years, and consumers want a laugh from their marketing interactions. Similarly, research suggests that 70% of Americans want brands to take a stand on issues. Sara calls this the “brand stand” – but it’s a tricky one. Just like our previous podcast guest, Elizabeth Windram of Uber, she warns that brands shouldn’t just go after a “flavour of the moment” if they want to align themselves with a value. Instead, these should always link back to the core values and mission of the brand to make their position credible and a value exchange with consumers.
So, what makes a good value exchange for brands? In Sara’s view, “brands should build experiences consumers want.” Entering the metaverse with NFTs is a good example: Robert Mondavi Winery, part of Constellation Brands, created an NFT that is a guarantee of the provenance of a high-end bottle of wine. Consumers could purchase the NFT, which would become a ticket for them to then have access to the wine, but they could also later use it as a seal of approval for the quality of that wine. This way, there would be value extracted not just from the wine itself, but also from the metaverse-level of marketing done by the brand.
Listen to Sara talk about other ways to create genuine value exchanges with consumers, as well as her top tips for students and marketers, in the latest podcast here.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Tom Ollerton 0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Shiny New Object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of Automated Creative, and this is a weekly show, where I interview the industry's leaders about their vision for the future of the industry. And this week, we are brought to you by Attest. Attest as a consumer research platform that enables brands to make customer understanding a competitive advantage with continuous insights. By combining unparalleled speed and data quality with on demand research guidance, the platform makes it simple and fast to uncover opportunities with consumer data and grow without guesswork. So I'm on a call with Sara Master, who is Senior Director, ecommerce marketing and digital shelf at Constellation Brands. Sara, for anyone who doesn't know you, can you just give us an overview of who you are, and what you do.
Sara Master 1:04
Absolutely. At Constellation Brands, I lead ecommerce marketing, which means I ensure that our beer Wine and Spirits products are marketed online in store and other places, and a way that consumers can find them online to buy for delivered to their homes. And then I also ensure the all the product content they see online at retailers' websites, is up to date and compelling to help them make their purchase decisions.
Tom Ollerton 1:34
And what was your path to arriving at that role? What are the main jobs you've done over the years?
Sara Master 1:40
You know, it's really funny, I actually started my career in teaching. I am an avid reader, and I really wanted to be a high school English teacher and get students reading Shakespeare. And somewhere along the lines around when I graduated, I realized teaching wasn't going to work out for me. And I thought, what are my transferable skills, and I realized if I can get a high schooler to read Hamlet, then I'm sure I can get somebody to buy a bottle of alcohol. And that's when I started my marketing journey. And I had a lot of different jobs along the way. But where I feel like my career really took off is when I started working at digital marketing agencies, and doing marketing for brands like Starbucks, and Kimberly Clark, which is diapers and other paper goods, and then even Mondelez, which owns Oreo and Ritz crackers and Chips Ahoy cookies and other things along those lines. So really, getting into the CPG world and doing digital marketing with those folks is what brought me to Constellation Brands, where I am today.
Tom Ollerton 2:53
I love that story, and I'm going to ask what is directly transferable from Hamlet to alcohol advertising.
Sara Master 3:03
So if you can inspire someone that doesn't want to do it to do something, then it's pretty easy to inspire someone that does want to do it to do something. So if I could get some students to be interested in reading Hamlet, how much harder could it be to get someone that perhaps would like to buy a bottle of alcohol, a bottle of Corona, to get to buy that product? Right? It's much, much easier to do that when people are ready and willing.
Tom Ollerton 3:32
That's very true. And an unusual insight for the podcast. So I would like to also understand, what advice would you give to people who want to follow in your footsteps? What advice would you give to a student who's new to the industry and looking to establish themselves?
Sara Master 3:50
I would give them the advice go as big as you can, from the start. It's always easier to go smaller. So go to the biggest school you can go to take the splashiest major that sounds appealing to you, take the job at the biggest firm that you can get into, but always start bigger. And then once you realize and understand exactly where you want your career to go, you can start going to more specialized companies. So in my case, it was about getting into the biggest marketing agency, I could get into supporting the most recognizable brands that gives you more credibility when you're starting out in your career to be able to make choices later on about where you want it to go.
Tom Ollerton 4:37
So the advice is to get some big names under your belt and then people think you're cool because you've worked on big brands and then you can always go niche after that.
Sara Master 4:45
People will know you're cool Tom, they'll know you're cool. Yes, but that pretty much sums it up.
Tom Ollerton 4:52
And moving on from advice to tips, so I always ask what is the top marketing tip that you find yourself sharing most often, was it something you had early in your career or have heard recently.
Sara Master 5:06
So, I think that it's an easy thing to say, but really hard thing to do, which is, you have to be consumer led. And so that's always my top tip: Be consumer led and follow where the consumers are going. Don't be so drawn into your brand or product that you're marketing that you can't see where the consumer is, because if you aren't following them, you're not going to win.
Tom Ollerton 5:28
So I'm going to say something odd for someone that runs an ad tech business. But if you're going to be truly consumer led, you wouldn't advertise. Right? People don't need advertising, right? They don't need to be interrupted, they don't need to understand the brand's social purpose, they don't need to see your 20% off, they don't need to say your new brand campaign. So to be truly consumer led is to not advertise at all. So how do you how do you recognize that tension?
Sara Master 5:57
That is a fair question. A fair point, I would say that to be truly consumer led, you still need to help the consumer find your product. And as long as your product is in line with the consumers' expectations, then you will delight them, right. But if you're not advertising, if you're not telling the consumer about your product, then essentially you're doing them a disservice because you're not giving them the solution that they need. And if you're consumer led, you have that right solution that they're going to want.
Tom Ollerton 6:29
That's a good answer. But only good if you have the best products, because if you don't have the best products you're destroying what's extracting them from the best product.
Sara Master 6:39
Hey, what's the best product for any particular consumer, right? They're gonna, you're gonna try to give it to them, but they they might want something else.
Tom Ollerton 6:48
I can feel like, like Hamlet esque introspection and dialogue coming through here. So we're at the stage now where we are going to talk about your shiny new object, and your shiny new object is value exchange with customers. So I think I know what that means. But why is a value exchange with consumers, customers, your shiny new object? And why does it represent the future of the industry?
Sara Master 7:17
I think we've spent a long time with the Mad Men-esque advertising where we tell consumers what we think that they want, and then make them buy it. And it's time that we really think about giving consumers what they need and giving them value, and moving marketing past a disruption. I have spent many days earlier in my career, in big meeting rooms with people talking about how they're going to disrupt mom in the grocery store, and get them to buy the product that we're trying to sell to her. And I feel like that's not creating a value exchange with the consumer that's just interrupting somoene when they're trying to grocery shop. So I want to reframe how we think about marketing to be about what can we give consumers that's useful and valuable for them.
Tom Ollerton 8:10
And so, what we're gonna do now is look at Attest's research, thanks to those guys for supplying it. This is new to the podcast. I'm super excited, but they shared some of the key stats from their US consumer trends report. So you're definitely searchable online for that, guys, anyone who is listening to this. And there's three questions that I pulled out. I think they're interesting. So what marketing messages do consumers want to hear from brands, and number one, with 57% was humor, make me laugh and entertain me. That was followed by a 47% motivational make me feel motivated, inspired and sort of wallowing in third place of 34.5% is educational. Educate me and help me learn new things. So. So, you know, you're talking about needs and value and moving past and being a disrupter and being useful and valuable. But the research here would suggest that it's, it's having a laugh, is what consumers want in terms of marketing messages. How, how did you react to that when you saw that data?
Sara Master 9:13
I thought that this data was really fascinating. And I actually thought that it really jived well, with the value exchange because humor, laughing, that's valuable, right, that is giving consumers something of value. Specifically right now, I feel like there's a lot going on in the world. It's been a rough couple of years and not necessarily surprised to see that humor is, is the number one thing that people are looking for from brands and the value that they're seeking, right? Humor, motivation and education are their top values that they're looking for.
Tom Ollerton 9:46
But humor's so hard, isn't it, like be funny? Like, you know, I used to do comedy years ago and I was awful at it. And occasionally you sort of let it slip or deliberately let it slip at a party that that's what you did. So someone will say, well tell me a joke. And you're like, ah, you know, that's not how it works. Just be funny. So I think like, yes, people may want humor. But if you're, I don't know, toilet cleaner or beans or bread or something, it starts to get a bit more tricky, all I can already think of brands that are quite funny in certainly in beans. But is humor attainable for everyone?
Sara Master 10:23
I think humor is attainable for many, many brands, I think maybe there's a few where it would not be appropriate. And maybe they want to go with motivate or educate or something else. But in general, I think humor is always attainable. For the brands I work with specifically thinking about right now Corona, we have really funny ads coming out this season featuring Snoop Dogg. And and it's, it's all about the humor. I mean, that's what really selling the product, the ability to laugh at ourselves and laugh at our marketing messages and laugh at the beach is really the value behind that product that we're sharing with the consumers. So yeah, I think humor is attainable in most cases. But definitely, if you're, I don't know, selling coffins, maybe then you might want to choose something else.
Tom Ollerton 11:22
Yes, it's getting really scary. Moving, moving across to another set of data that was really interesting. 70% of Americans want brands to take a stand on issues. And leading the charge was poverty and inequality alongside racism at 36%. And then climate change. So this is the opposite of humor, or at least should be. What was your view on that data? Was that surprising to you? Or does this reflect what we're seeing in the marketing at present?
Sara Master 11:52
This is definitely in line with what we're seeing. Our research has been showing that consumers want brands, we call it take a brand stand, they're looking for consumers to reflect or excuse me, they're looking for brands to reflect their values. And it's hard, I'll be honest, it's really hard. And pairing your product with something like poverty and inequity isn't necessarily something that all brands want to or can do. And then if you make the wrong choice, right, supporting the wrong program, or discussing the wrong topic, you could really alienate a lot of your consumers. And so it's really a difficult thing. And I don't think that companies or brands should take a brand stand, if they're not choosing something that they actually really feel strongly about as their core values as a company or a brand. You can't just choose a flavor of the moment, right? And take a stand on it, because you won't have the backbone to back it up. And to stay true to that brand stand if consumers don't appreciate the direction that you've gone in.
Tom Ollerton 13:06
And so moving back to your point around disrupting mum in in the supermarket, it's because the grocery store, as you put it. Surely in a world of FMCG, where in a blind taste test, a lot of things are going to taste and feel very similar. And ultimately, it's all down to brand and obviously could be very often driven by discount or certainly in the alcohol category. Isn't disruption really powerful to break up someone's journey to make them think about your product differently in that moment? And if it converts, does it really matter?
Sara Master 13:47
I think that it could be, disruption could be a tool to use. But is that really how you want to capture your consumer and convert? Is that the experience you want? I would argue no. I think that brands should be building experiences that consumers want. If they want humor, give them humor, right? Like use your brand from that perspective. Don't try to put in a giant display case in the store that stops the consumer from being able to comfortably go down an aisle with their cart and call that how you're marketing. That's the easy way out. Right like be better challenge yourself to do more and give consumers something of value with their purchase or with your marketing message. I think an example of that would be with with the popularity of NFT's right now. You're not creating a value exchange if what you give them is an NFT of your product, right? An NFT of a bag of chips. That's not valuable. But if you were using the NFT to give them something They actually want, then that can be useful. So an example of that would be one of our wineries, we own Robert Mondavi Winery, did an NFT program, where if you bought an NFT, it was like an image, you would essentially have the right to purchase a very, very high-end very limited edition custom bottle of wine later. And that NFT was essentially your ticket. And that, I think, is the kind of value exchange consumers are looking for. Versus a picture of your bag of chips, right. And there's not a lot of value there.
Tom Ollerton 15:38
And on NFT project, and I haven't seen it, so please tell me more. But are those values of those NFTs going up, are they being traded that have they got any value other than the access to this wine?
Sara Master 15:55
The intention is that they potentially could go up and be traded in the future, if that is what the consumer wanted. So the NFT actually acts as a seal of approval for that wine. So in high-end wine, there's actually some instances of people passing off wine that isn't a high-end wine that you think you're buying in a closed bottle. It's something else. And so this acts as like a marker to be able to prove that the wine that you're getting is actually that wine, and it's the tracking with the digital fingerprint of that wine, if you will.
Tom Ollerton 16:33
And so it's guaranteeing the guarantee and the provenance of the bottle. It's because I was like, Well, why don't you send him an email with a code on it. But you're actually, the specific bottle of wine is related to the NFT.
Sara Master 16:49
Exactly, exactly guarantees the provenance. And then if a consumer later wish to sell it, they could sell the NFT and then obviously send the wine to the buyer. So it does create a way for the product to be gained value and be sold on the open market at a later date if that was what somebody wish to do with it.
Tom Ollerton 17:10
Yeah, I think that's absolutely fantastic. I do another show called Advertisers Watching Ads. It's like a brands watch other people's ads once a week and we talk about them in a video. You can be my guest, and we're discussing after the show, the metaverse ad that we looked at, and everyone was like, I don't really I know I'm not supposed to say this. But I don't understand what the metaverse is, it seems like a poorly defined set of experiences and websites online where you can interact with other people. And everyone's like, Well, that was what the internet did anyway. And then someone was like, well, but looking at NFTs you can now ascribe digital value to actual value to digital things, or in this case, reassure the provenance of something by ascribing an NFT to it. And everyone's like, yeah, that makes so much sense. And in this like web 3 world for me, certainly there seems to be this huge gulf between the value of something like an NFT. And the situation you described versus the, sorry I can't remember the name of the brand. But you know, they're sort of Metaverse experience where you can drink in a crap, poorly rendered bar, pretending to drink digital wine. You know, I've got massively off topic here, but really, really struck me today. And it's so interesting to hear yet another example of NFTs being used in a very creative and very easy to understand way.
Sara Master 18:29
In a real way, right? That's giving a value exchange to the consumer, not just trying to disrupt them. But I think what you said about the metaverse was so interesting, because I went into the first I'm only admitting this because you kind of already admitted that like not everyone gets it. I went into the metaverse and I like made myself an avatar on a brand's meta experience. Which brand, I can't tell you because it's a competitor. I tried to walk around and interact with and I just kept walking into the walls. I just kept riding my avatar into the wall and so I still have some work to do to be able to live in the metaverse. Not quite there yet.
Tom Ollerton 19:16
Yeah, a really interesting article in the FT earlier this week or last week, and basically saying that until the metaverse is as good as a very good computer game, or better forget it. Like why would you spend like if you're gonna plug into a system and connect like I'm not a big computer game person but have played them and I've a very addictive personality so I need to stay away from them but like an incredible console experience that you play online with other people you know is that it needs to be as good as it needs to be as exciting as that in this brand experience. Otherwise you're walking into walls. I mean, I went into the Nike one on Roblox and yeah, and I was just I made an avatar made myself look ridiculous and I just spent 10 minutes trying to find something to do, got really bored and the only thing that kept me there was my curiosity about the metaverse. It was a bad experience and talking about value exchange, then, you know, I assume other people will have had your lack of value exchange in this experience. So what can brands be doing to make sure that anything they do? Metaverse, NFT, Facebook ads, display ads? How do you make sure that there's a value exchange?
Sara Master 20:24
You're gonna love this Tom. I would say my first piece of advice is don't go after the shiny new objects. And that's, and that's really because you can't do something just to do something, like don't make up a metaverse experience for your brand just to make a metaverse experience for your brand. Make sure actually aligns with your brand and what your consumers want. If your consumers aren't that interested in the metaverse yet, maybe wait a little while until they are and then make a Metaverse experience that we have better experience for them. Right. So really have to be consumer led and follow where your consumers are and what they want now and provide that to them versus trying to force fit your brand into whatever is the cool NFT thing of the moment or the metaverse thing of the moment.
Tom Ollerton 21:11
So just taking all the fun out of marketing. Now. That's a very good, very good point. And unfortunately, we're at the end of the podcast now. So if anyone wants to reach out to you to discuss the topics we've covered on this podcast today, how would you like them to do that? And what makes a great outreach message to you?
Sara Master 21:31
Please contact me on Linkedin and just send me a personal message and I'm always open to meeting new people and learning new things. So I look forward to chatting with anybody.
Tom Ollerton 21:43
Sorry, that's not good enough answer. Come on, what should be in that message. What really makes you look at a ton of these messages. What, what what makes a good one standout?
Sara Master 21:51
I would want to know how you would have a good value exchange with the consumers that you work with.
Tom Ollerton 21:58
That's better. I like thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation.
Sara Master 22:04
Thanks, Tom. It was a real pleasure to be here today.
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