Episode 214 / Nina Ntatidou / PayPal / Global Lead Management
The Importance of Ethical Marketing
Nina Ntatidou is the Global Lead Management at PayPal. With a background in economics, she turned to marketing four years ago and is passionate about supporting newcomers into the industry, as well as about ensuring that all marketing from her brand is transparent and honest.
Many students make the mistake of thinking that entering the marketing world requires a very specific marketing background. According to Nina, however, the beauty of the industry is precisely the fact that you can work with a melting pot of people from economics, data, engineering, and so on. For gathering marketing experience, she recommends doing courses in your free time, networking, or building industry knowledge through any types of extra-curricular engagements.
Once in the industry, it’s crucial that marketers remember to focus on understanding their customers, solving their problems, and meeting their needs. Yes, this sounds like an obvious piece of advice. Yet, it’s staggering how many companies forget to do this. If, however, you connect with consumers and gain their trust, you not only understand what makes them buy your products. You’re also developing long-term relationships and loyalty.
Another key part of earning consumers’ trust is ethical marketing - Nina’s shiny new object. Too many brands focus on advertising in big letters what they believe is good for the brand, while hiding activities or information that might damage the brand. However, this doesn’t work anymore in an era where consumers are far more involved and interested in how their products are made, where materials come from, and how they end up in front of them.
So, along with adopting ethical practices and auditing their supply chain, businesses need to ensure they are always truthful and transparent in how they communicate. Nina’s advice is to always ask yourself: is the communication you’re coming out with truthful or not?
Find out more marketing tips from Nina and hear about her worst example of unethical fashion marketing, on the latest episode.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Nina Ntatidou 0:00
Consumer are more aware of what's happening in the industry, they want to do more research of the products they buy, where do they come from if they were produced ethically or manufactured ethically. So marketing is one part of that.
Tom Ollerton 0:41
Hello, and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative and this is a weekly podcast about the future of marketing and advertising. Every week, I get the incredible privilege to interview one of our industry's leaders, and I am on a call with one of those people this week, which is Nina Ntatidou, who is global lead management at PayPal. So Nina, for anyone who doesn't know who you are, and what you do, can you give us a bit of background about how you ended up where you are today.
Speaker 2 1:46
Thanks for having me on the podcast, Tom. Hi, everyone. I'm Nina. So I've been working in marketing in the past four years here in London. And my career started out there, I completed my master's degree in engineering business management at Warwick. My original background is in economics. And that's how I landed my job in Tata Consultancy Services. As a pre sell solution consultants. I stayed there in my role more than a year. And then I moved to a marketing role as a global marketing assistant manager. So we were the core team for marketing for the company in Tata. So after that, I moved to a startup company. I've worked there as a marketing manager. And then here in Paypal, I'm a global lead manager. And it's a great journey till now. So I'm very happy to be here. Thank you.
Tom Ollerton 2:44
Absolute pleasure. And I'm very envious of the fact that you've only been in the industry four years, and have none of the baggage that those of us who've been in it much longer have so I'm really interested to get your view and you've chosen the question, which is how would you advise a smart driven student to get into the industry? And given that you've done that relatively recently? What advice would you give to people who wanted to follow in your footsteps?
Nina Ntatidou 3:07
Thanks, Tom. So the thing is that students are very confused how to penetrate the industry, how to start a new job without experience, so it's always good to give some advice to them. You don't have to be a marketer, or you don't have to come from a background, very specific to marketing, right? So marketing industry is so flexible that I've worked with people that studied engineering, economics, data science, maths. So it's, it's not about the background you have, you can always have experience, you can always do courses, you can always do some something, some courses from your free time, or anything else, maybe network. So it's not as difficult as students think. And it's great to to take a risk and try it if you if you want to actually work for marketing industry.
Tom Ollerton 4:08
And what would be your top marketing tip? You've been in the industry four years. What's the thing that's really impressed you really stuck with you that you think you know, that's gonna stand me in good stead going forward?
Speaker 2 4:21
Sure. So in the past, I've worked with a lot of business developers or salespeople, and marketing, of course. So the thing that stuck in my brain since then, is that, you know, you have to focus on solving your customers' problem and meeting their needs, which is something very broad and something that you can see everywhere and you would say, as a marketing, you will say, obviously, I'm not going to do that. But a lot of companies, they are not actually focusing on that. And I've seen that in really different ways because sometimes their goal is you know, Is the revenue to hit targets and they miss the actual point to solve the customers' problems. So it's really crucial to like if you want to generate leads and create awareness of your company, just to understand and do a good research for the pain points, the desires or any motivations, and see maybe what your competitor is doing better than you and just focus on that.
Tom Ollerton 5:33
What is the most effective way that you've found to do it? Because I agree with you, it's the most obvious thing in the world, right? Do your research, understand your consumer, solve a problem for them and put that central in your marketing in your sales efforts, right. However, the uncovering of that truth is difficult, because it's getting people to report exactly what they think, feel and do is is hard. And then you have your own hunches and your beliefs and you want, we don't want to let go of them. So how have you seen other people do that successfully? And how do you do that yourself?
Nina Ntatidou 6:02
I think if you connect with your clients, if you connect them and gain their trust, and actually open your ears, and listen to them, and then I think you will definitely come up with a plan and then always go back to your client and suggest these five solutions. If nothing of this is to their liking, then you always go back reworking until they like it and I think that's really important. Because then you're building trust and relationships. And of course, it's not gonna, it's not gonna take ages to do that. But communication, building trust, it's at the end, you're gonna have a long term relationship and loyalty. So clients, they won't really want to leave you because you will have this kind of relationship. And you will always have repeat business after that.
Tom Ollerton 7:02
This episode of the shiny new object podcast is brought to you in partnership with MADfest, whether it's live in London or streamed online to the global marketing community, you can always expect the distinctive and daring blend of fast paced content startup innovation pitches and unconventional entertainment from MADfest events, you'll find me causing trouble on stage recording live versions of this podcast and sharing a beer with the nicest and most influential people in marketing, check it out at www.madfestlondon.com.
Tom Ollerton 7:39
So now we're going to move on to your shiny new object, which is ethical marketing. So I think I know what that is. But what is your description of ethical marketing in 2023? And why is that your shiny object.
Speaker 2 7:57
So I would say transparent and honest. And we saw in the recent years that this is growing, because consumer are more aware of what's happening in the industry, they want to do more research of the products they buy, where do they come from, if they were, if they were produced ethically or manufactured ethically, So marketing is one part of that. And if you take some examples, you could see that a lot of brands, they promote with big letters, what's good for the brand, and then hide with small letters, things that they don't want their consumers to see. And this is like a game that's going on the past few years since since ever, and I think it's really good that we are as human beings, we are we are growing. So we always want to have the best products and marketing should align with that. And you have to have always the the truth as a customer when you buy something or when you receive a service.
Tom Ollerton 9:08
So help me understand your your view on ethical marketing. Do you mean it's like being ethically open about your your products and your service and supply chain? Or is it brands acting in an ethical way?
Speaker 2 9:21
It's more about for me it's more about, yes, maybe the logistics or the way that you produce something or environmentally if you take the materials you use as a business did you do the best you could? And how do you promote this product or service to your clients? Is this the communication you're giving truthful or not? So that's that's the part I wanted to talk about more.
Tom Ollerton 9:49
So because you are near the start of your career and you work for ginormous business, how do you want to shape your employer ,like how does that work internally for you, so ethical marketing is important to you. Otherwise, you wouldn't have brought it on the show. But how are you making sure that the businesses that you work for now and in the future, have a strong moral compass?
Speaker 2 10:12
Of course, if I'm involved, for example, in the communication part, or the content part that is going to go public, or is going to go to clients and all that, I will always adjust probably the content to what I see as truthful, and good for my business, but good for my clients too. So that's, that's a way of doing that. And if people don't agree with you, you can always have a conversation and find a different solution. But I will then promote something that I would I don't believe in or I don't agree with.
Tom Ollerton 10:57
Who do you look up to in ethical marketing? Who were the brands or organizations that you have seen that made you choose this as your shiny new object? Who do you look up to in the ethical marketing space?
Nina Ntatidou 11:10
Um, I think it was, I will give you a fashion brand. That happened a few months back, I think it was Balenciaga, I'm not sure that there was this extreme societal thing that everyone was saying, like, we're not gonna buy your brands, because of the marketing. And they had with it had like illegal, not illegal content, but unethical conduct with heat and all that, you see that people didn't want to see that and didn't want to accept the message, the marketing message they were releasing through this video and through this ad. So this is just a simple example, from a huge brand, actually, that we wouldn't expect that from. And if you take the art, the new art technology, for example, that generates art that looks real. And you see, they haven't found this is a different example. But they haven't found a middle way of saying that. Is this art ethical? Because they don't say that it was generated by an algorithm? You know? So is it fair for the artist that spent months on on a painting? Or, or a photographer that took a picture to compare them with an algorithm? So they haven't find a middle way on saying that? What's ethical or what's not? Or what can be submitted on a competition or not? Things like that? Yeah. Like, there's so many examples and different aspects of that, that you can talk about, I think.
Tom Ollerton 12:47
So I'm keen to know the other examples. You mentioned, the Balenciaga, I'm just looking at it now that the kids sort of stood on the bed with this almost kind of bondage type gear, they're very arresting, and very, very challenging them in some senses, great marketing, because it's arresting, but have they gone too far? So what other examples of unethical advertising have you seen that annoys you? Or? Or the other way? What do you think those ethical marketing really well?
Speaker 2 13:16
I think, as a big brand fashion brand, and you have to you want to send a message to your clients, you have to be very careful about your communication. So the way they approached this specific ad, for example, it wasn't, it wasn't for kids, like I wouldn't say I'm a kid and want to see chains. And like, you know, I don't think that that's what kids represent in child childhood and all that we at least, our generation, I don't know, we were like more free walking on the streets playing around. Like, I wouldn't see chains and say, yes, I want to buy this. So it's not really it's not really for kids, you know, and it wasn't the message they wanted to send. So it was more abusive, let's say for for my eyes. And I think most people would agree that this wasn't proper to to demonstrate with kids. If it wasn't an adult material. I would say yes, because you have the consent and all that. But if it's for kids, I don't think there's any point of advertising things with with a dark view. I don't know how to say that.
Tom Ollerton 14:35
Yeah, I think advertising with children involved with any hint of any type of sexuality or anything to do with sex or adult behavior is not a good idea, period. There was a quite a famous Twitter storm about an Audi ad a few years ago, where there was a kid leaning against the car eating a banana and everyone went crazy about it because, you know, there was sexualizing children and there's an argument that it wasn't, it was just a kid eating a banana. And it was the viewer that sexualized the image in their minds. So it's an interesting space. But I think it's a pretty easy one to avoid. And really just need someone with common sense to say that maybe maybe we should steer away from anything that's vaguely sexual with kids. Anyway, you've got, you've got me all wound up and excited by that. And we should be talking about you. But unfortunately, you know, we're at the end of the show, thank you for sharing your your views and your experience. And it's been great to meet someone who's started their journey in the industry. And if anyone wants to reach out to you to help you on that journey, where can they contact you? And what would you like to get in a message from them?
Speaker 2 15:38
Thank you, Tom. Thank you for your time. I think I'm using a lot LinkedIn, like it's my favorite tool I've been using in probably eight years now or nine. So I'm very active on the platform, and anyone that wants to contact me, a fellow professional or a student that wants advice or something like that, I will be more than happy to answer through a message.
Tom Ollerton 16:01
Brilliant. Okay. Well, thank you so much for your time.
Nina Ntatidou 16:04
Thank you, Tom. Great conversation, and thanks for having me.
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