Episode 171 / Charles Steinmyller / Procter & Gamble / Senior Brand Manager Tampax Europe
Embracing the Circular Economy and Changing Perspectives on Waste
Charles Steinmyller is the Senior Brand Manager for Tampax Europe at Procter & Gamble, having worked in the FEM care area of P&G for several years after an experience with the French Navy upon finishing his studies. Combining these diverse experiences, he’s learnt a lot about how the environment is impacted by human activities and what priorities different parts of the world attribute to this. That’s why his Shiny New Object is the circular economy and what brands can do to change our perspective on waste.
Finding the next best thing to use materials in once they’re past their primary utility is a passion for Charles, one which began when he was a junior officer in the French Navy. Seeing first-hand the impact of human activity on the environment when he was stationed in Djibouti in Africa, he realised that “these topics are not especially top of mind for everyone, but they are affecting everyone.”
So, how can brands be part of the circular economy and re-use materials in an authentic way, and how can this be good marketing? Charles thinks that circularity is a great way to be environmentally friendly without greenwashing, since it’s very tangible and traceable. However, the biggest challenge in entering the circular economy is how expensive this can be for brands. Therefore, he believes that brands should join forces in adopting re-used materials, which will hopefully drive prices down in the longer run.
From a digital marketing perspective, of course, the main advantage to brands is being first to market. Ultimately, this will diminish in time, but it’s a risk worth taking if it contributes to more environmentally friendly and socially responsible practices. As Charles puts it, “if everyone else [ends up doing] the same, there will always be other areas to focus [marketing] efforts.”
Find out more about Charles’ belief in the circular economy and his best marketing tips in the latest episode of the podcast here.
Charles is also cycling ocean to ocean on the Silk Road to raise money for Coral Gardeners, a team that works to revive the oceans by planting coral.
You can keep in touch with Charles and find out more about the challenge here: https://www.okpal.com/cycling-for-oceans.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Tom Ollerton 0:06
Hello, and welcome to the Shiny New Object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of Automated Creative and this is a weekly podcast where I speak to the industry's leaders about what they think is coming next in the world of marketing and this week is no different. I'm on a call with Charles Steinmyller, who is senior brand manager, Tampax Europe at Procter & Gamble. So Charles, for anyone who doesn't know you, can you give the audience a bit of an overview of who you are what you do.
Charles Steinmyller 0:35
Sure, Hi, Tom. Thanks for inviting me, I'm French, I'm 29 and as you say, I work for Tampax, quite strange for a man to work on a female brand but very happy to design the strategy and campaigns for Europe for the spread across Europe. I joined especially original for me to work on Tampax since I've been a junior officer. In my early career I was in the Navy, in the French Navy, so I moved from a very masculine environment to the feminine world, I would say. But love the shock, love the change of environment. And yeah still early in my career, but four years now in what we call FEM care in P&G, two years on Always, on the social impact of the brand globally, and now working on the tampon brand for Europe.
Tom Ollerton 1:33
So sorry, we got this big gap there. You're gonna have to tell me how you got from in the Navy to working on Always.
Charles Steinmyller 1:44
No big surprise on working for P&G because I studied in business school I got the chance to go abroad, US, Canada, Brazil, Korea, worked a bit in Germany, in Switzerland too. So I was really attracted by this international environment, wanted to do my tenor in the in the business industry, let's say. So P&G, it wasn't a surprise. It's smaller, the Navy experience that is coming out of the blue, but not so much of a surprise as well for the people who know me because my dad made his career in the Navy, my mum's dad did it too. And I grew up in an environment where we were, I have six siblings, we were seven kids. The military training at home was really hard to make the organization smooth. So shower, two minutes. And yet to follow this, this habit of being very well organized. So military environment was also something I grew up in. And I always was tempted to try one year in the Navy. So yeah, I went to just after my degree, I joined the Navy for a year. They have this program where you can join as a volunteer. Really enjoyed it. And then yes, I came back to a career that was more what I was prepared for.
Tom Ollerton 3:07
So given where you are in your career, what advice would you give to a student who wants to follow in your footsteps or be successful?
Charles Steinmyller 3:17
My advice to probably young graduate is to keep exploring, I had the chance to talk to a few students in a career fair. Once I came back to my business school for speeches or events, and I was telling them keep exploring. When you're young, especially, you'll have time to specialize later if you want to. But having this constant mindset of being curious to discover new things is something really important, I would say, especially when you're just starting to explore the world of possibilities of a career in the business world.
Tom Ollerton 4:01
And in your career, either the Navy or at P&G, what's your top marketing tip? What's that kind of golden bit of advice you find yourself sharing most of?
Charles Steinmyller 4:13
Hmm... Very early career. But still I have one. One tip that struck my mind when I was when it was shared with me is, somebody told me: be your consumer. And this is a good reminder of consumer knowledge is really the key to understand how to shape a winning strategy from understanding that your brand is not at the center of the life of your consumer, to also making sure that you're doing the job that you're expected to do. Ideally you do it the best but you need to deliver on the basic promises that your brand is claiming they will answer. So being your consumer or being in the shoes of your consumer is really a good tip for me, putting the consumer knowledge at the center is very helpful.
Tom Ollerton 5:05
So I can imagine there might be some specific challenges on the brand you work for now, how do you put yourself in the mind of your consumer at Tampax?
Charles Steinmyller 5:14
Yeah, good question. Tricky indeed. I mean, it depends on the market. And this is the beauty of working at European level, you have the challenges for British consumers, for example, where the trend on going out of single use plastic is big, in France is more around safety. I come from France. So being constantly reminded by my friends and family that we need to do something. So yes, it's tricky, but that's what makes it exciting. And the good thing and this is the main reason why I joined P&G is you have the, we have the chance to be in a big company that has the possibility to do something that can be scaled. So whenever you do this smallest effort towards the environment, or especially in this area and towards the environment, it's when you scale it to the global level of how the company is operating, you're really having a strong impact. So this is where I said I would be. My objective by joining P&G is joining the big name to change it from wishing for a more positive future, let's say. So these are two challenges.
Tom Ollerton 6:37
So what we're going to talk now about your shiny new object, which is the circular economy, so I have an understanding of what the circular economy is, but can you help the audience understand specifically what you see as the circular economy being and why that is your shiny new object and why you think it represents the future of marketing.
Charles Steinmyller 7:00
Trying it, just trying to define it very simply, it's trying to turn waste into the next best thing to use and changing our perspective on waste. We're producing a lot. And if we manage to turn this waste into new material that can be reused indefinitely, this is the best thing we can do to try and reduce our impact on the environment. I told you I was in the Navy, I got the chance to have my open space being on an ocean. So I had I could see it. I was at the how do you say that first row of seeing the impact of our activities on the environment. I had a port of call in Djibouti in Africa. And you see that these topics are not especially top of the mind for everyone, but are truly affecting everyone. I started to meet a few companies that were working in that space. And I understood that this was the way to go. Because we're not going to most likely not going to stop consuming and producing. But if we managed to shift the mindset into a let's try and try and make it circular so that we reuse what we produce. That's probably the best way to go. So this this is I would say a shiny new object. And again, by joining P&G, it has the scale and the power to change things. It's my little contribution to help change things in that area.
Tom Ollerton 8:48
So we are fortunate to have a partner in Attest who are the sponsor partner for this podcast. And they've conducted some research for you on the topic. And there's a couple of interesting points to note. From their survey, it said that 72% of women deemed sustainability in femcare products as somewhat or very important. That seems to chime with your worldview. Were you surprised it was as high as that? Or would you expect it to be even more positive?
Charles Steinmyller 9:20
I would say I expected it to be that, I mean it's not a surprise. This is where we need to focus our efforts. And thanks again to your partner Attest for for this data, it's very helpful. Especially another point that they mention was interesting to me. They said that recycled object was one of their, was top of their list in what they deem important into how a brand can be sustainable. So for me, it just confirms the need for our brands to be very authentic, transparent and share tangible effort that we are doing on making our product a bit more sustainable. I think circularity really talks to people, it's really clear what we're doing when you're turning waste into new material that you're reusing. It's clear, it doesn't sound like greenwashing. And you're just making something that seems obvious and a lot of people will expect you to do. So. In other words, there wasn't full data to have a good reminder that this is still a top priority for most of our consumers. And good encouragement as well for us to keep doing what we do.
Tom Ollerton 10:37
And yet just to clarify the data point that you mentioned. So the most important factors for women when buying femcare products so that the products are chemical free. And as you mentioned, the packaging is recyclable. And the least important factor is that the product is organic. So did that surprise you?
Charles Steinmyller 10:55
This last point? Yes, it does. Especially when put in perspective with the French consumer. I remember this survey was done in the UK, so reflects the thinking in the approach, the perspective of the UK consumer, but in France is the opposite. Organic is the top priority for the consumers to find. So this just shows how complex it is for us, at the European level, to find a solution that fits everyone, it's complex. And it's not happening. We're just announcing different lines of products to ensure we answer the needs of different consumers. But I was surprised, yes, that the UK, the British consumer doesn't really care about organic product as much as it being more sustainable.
Tom Ollerton 11:51
So what's your advice to brands or marketers that want to be part of the circular economy, that want their brand to be part of that journey, in that narrative? And so what would your advice be to someone who wants to get into that world and that space, into that economy, but works at a brand that isn't that way inclined at the moment?
Charles Steinmyller 12:18
The tricky part is, and so is the same challenge that we're facing, is the cost. It's very expensive today to buy materials that are coming from the circular economy. So waste turned into new material, let's think about old plastic material, you change it, create new plastic paste, let's say and use it in your product. Today, it's very expensive. And it's sad, because this is what's blocking companies to make the extra effort. So, I would say my tip would be to join forces across the industry. And to make the choice of a supplier that is actually using recycled products and recycled raw materials a priority. It will take a little bit of time, but if the majority of suppliers and the biggest clients ask to be supplied by more sustainable and recycled materials, suppliers, this will probably change the situation.
Tom Ollerton 13:33
And so help me understand it better from a marketing perspective. So if a large brand, important brands, influential brands start using influential, sorry, start using recycled elements of their products or their packaging, once everyone starts doing it, everyone has stopped marketing at that point, it just becomes kind of hygiene, right? So is this unfortunately, a bit of a short term win by well, the early movers that become you know, carbon neutral or carbon positive, or you know, fully recycled, but they get that their PR advantage that it's literally a point of difference. But if everyone comes on board with your vision, then it won't be a point of difference. And it'll just be a tick box.
Charles Steinmyller 14:22
Yeah, you always have the first mover advantage. So my team, for my tip for marketing teams on that point, on that front, is to be very authentic. Even though you're not, it's not a beauty for you. As long as you're very transparent about the efforts you're making. Not trying to convince your consumers that you're changing the world, one product at a time just being very, very authentic and sharing with them very tangible efforts that you're making probably will be rewarded by their fidelity when they purchase you. And then I mean, if we come to a point where everybody is doing the same thing, there will always be another area to focus on or more efforts to be made. So I'm convinced the job is not done on sustainability and on embracing circular economy today. So I'd be curious to see when we reached that point, but really my tip is really being authentic, being transparent, sharing the efforts you're making, making it very tangible for the consumers to understand and that will you will be rewarded with with their purchase.
Tom Ollerton 15:48
And so who do you look up to in the circular economy in the brand space? Who do you think, " I wish Tampax was a bit more like them, or I aspire to have some of their values or outputs"?
Charles Steinmyller 16:01
I have to admit, I really like how Adidas did it a few years ago, already, when they were saying, "Oh, we're going to create a running shoe made out of ocean plastic. And it's going to be 100% made out of ocean plastic". So it's a double. It's killing two birds with one stone it by cleaning the ocean, you also create your new product, and it's shiny, and it's attractive, and you managed to sell it. So I was really admiring of their communication strategy, which was, again, very tangible, what they were doing, still staying true to who they are. This was a first start, and then I think they started selling a shoe that was fully recyclable as well. So this is a good example of embracing the circular economy: create your shoes, you use it, then we destroy it to create a new one.
Tom Ollerton 17:07
That reminds me reminds me of a campaign that we covered on another show that I do called Advertisers Watching Ads where I think it was Corona. And they ran a fishing competition, a plastic fishing competition for some fishermen in South America, Sorocaba not quite sure I've got that, right. And then they they paid them for, you know, the amount of plastic that they could then sell to a recycling plant. So obviously, not quite the same thing. But it's an entertaining and sustainable and a great idea.
Charles Steinmyller 17:45
Yeah, it's true, it's true, we have to, brands, marketers will have the challenge of making this topic. Not taking it lightly because it's not. But making fun of it and showing that they are making efforts, this effort don't sound like we're becoming becoming too pretentious about it. So we have to be able to laugh about it, but by doing the right thing.
Tom Ollerton 18:18
And so what do you see the future of the circular economy being, what's gonna make it happen, what's really gonna make this incredibly mainstream? It sounds like to me from a brand perspective, it's happening in places but what's gonna, what's gonna make it work for most brands?
Charles Steinmyller 18:42
Maybe by ensuring it's part of the brand strategy, not having a separate function working on it, but ensuring that it's integrated in the brand strategy in the brand building. And not working too much in silo. This is a lot about purchasing technical team BS product supply and logistics. So once we make sure that this becomes one of the strategic objectives of a brand, we probably have a stronger impact as in this is what we should all hope for not working in silos but joining forces to make it a no brainer that this needs to be part of an every brand strategy.
Tom Ollerton 19:41
So unfortunately, we are at the end of the podcast now. So if someone would like to reach out to you talk to you about the circular economy or the other things we've talked about today. How would you like them to do that and where?
Charles Steinmyller 19:55
I think by Linkedin is very easy the way you did it. Very simple. And I like that when people come to me with sharing a passion that we have in common, or did you see something that we did? Or they're curious to know more about it? So I will often answer positively to the request of the person, start being interested in talking to me meeting me in person. So LinkedIn is a way but nothing can replace a nice physical encounter, grabbing a coffee, or a drink. This is what I prefer the most.
Tom Ollerton 20:34
The first guest to ever buy me a drink. Fantastic, what a lovely way to finish it. And yeah, I learned a lot from that. So Charles, thank you so much for your time, and thanks to Attest for sponsoring the podcast.
Charles Steinmyller 20:46
Thank you Attest, and thanks, Tom. Great opportunity.
Subscribe to the ‘Shiny New Object’ Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube and Soundcloud.